How important is more Horsepower?

Perhaps s better question might be how much horsepower can a specific vehicle and an experienced driver harness and effectively get down to the ground. That’s the fun part. Horsepower numbers lend themselves to bragging rights and table-top racing. Horsepower that translates into traction / now that’s the real fun part. My $0.02.


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Like anything else, it depends.

The entire matched combination is what matters.

For example, since I own one, the F355. Relatively light, perfect gearing and 8700rpm redline..... but only 375hp?

Still, I will take it over 500hp, stupid gearing with unusable double overdrives and another 1000lb curb weight.

Also depends on where you live and what type of roads are accessible. I honestly enjoyed my 07 Z06 more when it was stock and 505hp than after I twin turboed it to 1200hp.

Having to breath on the accelerator to avoid death brings so much concentration induced stress that the overall enjoyment can be reduced to almost nothing if the environment isn't right.

There is a sweet spot between weight, gearing, rpm potential, horsepower, sound that it very enjoyable when it all comes together. Get any of them wrong and it will quickly turn a sweet combination sour.

IMO

 

agreed

 

agreed, though breathing the power is the difference between a racer and a streeter. but at 1200 hp that would be stressful on the street

 

Frankly, anything over say 450 horsepower and torque, along with a max of 3,600 pounds for the street is silly. If you can't have fun with that, you need to quit.

 

Caveats apply, as the above responses indicate. A single experience of mine might help with some perspective. I bought a 1980 308 GTSi because the right car came up at the right time, and it was priced right. Plus, it was on my bucket list. While it is fun to toss around, and you can play with it on the street at speeds that won't get you arrested, the performance was just too tame to do it for me. So, I got a 2000 360 Modena, and I got everything I needed performance wise. The cars are circa 200 HP and 400 HP respectively, and believe me, a 360 can kill you if you're not careful. So, in that case, the horsepower made a huge and definitive difference.

There are other factors at work here, though. The 308 is a bear to steer at parking lot speeds, so I realized I can't go that far back and be satisfied with the experience. I drive my cars at least twice a week year round, and I want them to be civilized when needed. Some guys love the vintage analog experience, but I'm not one of them. Some guys actually prefer the analog experience to the modern cars, so they may be advocates for lesser HP. Boxerman comes to mind.

 

Sorry Ron, I just recognized your thread! So I integrate my thoughts into this one.

Bugatti Chirion with 1500hp, great nice car. But 1200hp (Veyron) or 1500hp, sorry, I do not care about that.
McLaren's with 650, 675 or now 720hp, absolut great cars, but all the horsepower gaining does not interest me anymore. Those things are already damn fast anyway.

A Ferrari with 740, 780 or now with 800-V12-hp, for me, sorry to say that, absolutely secondary.

Yes, a Ferrari V8 turbo once again has significantly more torque and therefor noticeable better acceleration capabilities than the former V8 high-revvin engine. But is anyone still interested in even more power, more torque? And now, 670 or more than 700hp? To be honest, I do not care.

There are many more examples.

More power, power, power and even more power. A nice game that certainly had its charm for a long time.
For a few years now, the tire war has also started, so that even better (obviously for this market segment so important) "lap times" can be achieved. An indication that the additional power can no longer produce a positive effect? Apart from the influence of the human psyche??

Howsoever, is it only me or is the industry riding a dead horse?

Anyway, I said goodbye to the horsepower spiral. And I do feel excellent.

I'm interested in more opinions.

 

for a daily driver I agree. for what you need so much horsepower when all is limited and you never can use it on the legal way in public. other thing is when you go on a track. but today it needs not more than 150 to 200 hp to come from one place to the other. and even with those horsepower some drivers are overwhelmed and they can not control the car without the electronic systems.

even with my koenig competition it makes no fun to drive on public roads. all over they controll speed and a lot of other don´t like when you go fast and inform the police. terrible world meanwhile and makes no fun anymore

 

Personally I have been able to handle reasonably 500hp on the street without feelings of stress or anxiety in several different vehicles. Even the challenger hellcat at 700+ isn't too horrible to street drive comfortably power wise, though the car has other issues and limitations that make it less fun to enjoy. All that said I grew up driving cars that had 300 to 500 hp so it's not that big a deal to me since I learned how to drive with that much power. There are plenty of folks that shouldn't drive cars with that much power since it makes them a danger to themselves and everyone else sharing the road. It does seem like we are having the horsepower wars again but I think a car can be a joy to drive and not have a bajillion hp. And honestly having the most hp isn't even in my top 10 must haves is a car.

 

I would rather have a 400 HP car that weighs 2,000 pounds than a 600 HP car that weighs 3,000 pounds.
It would be quicker, too.

 

There is an old saying, "People buy horsepower but what they want is torque." And I might add, they want torque at low RPM.

I have a 360 (400 Hp) and I never long for more HP. But I sure would like to have some more torque (only 270 lb-ft at over 4,000 RPM I think) at 1500 RPM.

Before the 360 I had a C5 Corvette - 'only' 350 HP, but 350 lb-ft of torque at about 2,000 RPM. It was a lot quicker and more fun to drive in most street situations.

 

Yes, my 456M had 440 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque. The 360 feels anemic at low RPM but the 456M weighed 3,700 pounds. Once those revs are up, though, BAM! as Emeril says. I like the lighter car for sporty driving and I can't wait to get it to Circuit of the Americas. But now I need a 612 to get a touring car again. Nice problem to have.

 

I get in enough trouble on the street with my 355, with less than 400hp.
At high RPMS in 3rd gear I could be arrested for wreck less driving, get my car impounded, and have to hire an attorney to get me out of jail. Oh .....and I still have 3 gears left.

 

FWIW, many of us here wish Ferrari would reintroduce the Dino brand with front and mid V6's for smaller, lighter cars with less HP. As I've noted before, Ferrari already has the 3.9L V6, and Dino 396 sounds perfect. An optional manual would be nice too. It's the only new "Ferrari" I would buy.

 

Interesting question. You won't' be able to get away from 'bragging' rights - and pointed out before.

Case in point, the Buggati Chiron - 1,500 HP -yet a Tesla S/Demon can just as fast 0-60, at half the horsepower and a fraction of the cost. So does that make the Tesla/Demon* better? Not necessarily**

I do believe though we're approaching 'peak' performance, as in full commoditization of 0-60 and 1/4 mile speeds, where even non-exotics* will be routinely achieving. The limits will be based on what the available street tires allow.

The objective performance differentiator will be things like Nurburgring times which start measuring things more than just straight-line speed (such as handling and endurance**) - of course, most people won't be tracking their cars -- but it's just another way for marketing departments to say their cars are 'best.'

 

Just repeating your question so I have it correct:
So, how important is horsepower? Does more really add to the driving experience?

I think if you are talking about ever increasing horsepower that shows you the car manufacturers know the name of the game is to capture the imagination of car buyers. In short: horsepower sells because it is an indication of how fast a car will be. There are many people who don't want nor need the biggest engine and are happy to get the least powerful car or the car with the most MPG. But there are many of us who really do love our power. And the proof is look at all the cars with huge power. Its more than ever. Hellcat, regular AMG and M and Audi RS, then there are the AMG black or S or Im sorry if I can't keep up, and there is the M CS and not sure about Audi... And then there is Tesla which has something like 700hp in an electric car, the point of which is supposed to be favorable to the environment, but for many its the searing 0-60 times that make headlines. I can remember talking with friends about the (then) new F40 and how it had nearly 4x the power of normal cars and it would go over 200MPH! 0-60 in under 5 seconds! Can you imagine?!!! Well, now today there are family sedans that can do that in almost ½ the time! Most friends that own Teslas are not really performance car lovers, yet they don't brag to me about their cars' eco credentials, its always "look how fast it is". If I am in the business of selling cars, I must offer the market power, otherwise I am out of business. I think I am just stating the obvious, but there it is.

So, in general the market place rewards manufacturers for adding more power.

But, to come to your second part: Does more really add to the driving experience?

The answer is, as the replies above show: not necessarily. It reminds me of the old saying: its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.

But, the car companies know there is a difference between the somewhat rapid decision on which car to buy differs from the experience of owning and driving the car for a longer period.

In many cases more power just makes the car frustrating to drive. Case in point: I had a 2013 BMW M6. Very powerful, but it could not hope to deploy that power. Instead, mashing the throttle just resulted in a lot of DSC warning light on the dash, or, if DSC were switched off, then tire spin and smoke. Sounds fun, but once is enough. And of course, more power = stronger parts needed, which are heavier, and that means larger brakes, which means larger wheels, which are heavier, and then you need more power to push all that mass around and so on. Its a vicious cycle. It also means the car will feel more inert and less alive in your hands. Not what I prize in a driving experience- that M6 was the weight of a 7 series.

The other approach is usually best personified by Lotus: to go faster add lightness (aka subtract weight). Their cars don't really need a lot of stuff because they are small and light. Around a track this sort of car will eat up a big heavy car with gobs of power. But in the stop light wars the big heavy car with a lot of power will win.

I think Ferrari occupies somewhat of a middle ground. Of course they give you the power, but their cars are not super heavy like that M6 and they use technology in such a way that the car will feel very natural to drive, even when its helping you out. They manage to deliver an engaging experience that I think is unparalleled.

I think that sense of engagement is critical for longer term enjoyment.

 

I should add, we know the McLaren 720 has more power than the Ferrari 488 and the 488 has more power than the 458. I decided to keep my 458 and while I respect what McLaren is doing, the extra power of the 720 never really moved the needle for me... Like with everything its about the right balance of things. In my experience, no one offers the whole package better than Ferrari.

 

I think it depends on your personality and what drives your automotive passion. It may be speed/acceleration, style, competition, collecting, nostalgia ect. For me its a bit of everything. I do find that the more of these qualities that an individual car has the more passionate I seem to be (think F40). I have cars ranging from 92hp to 1000hp. For the most part I find that the power the 360 (400hp) and the Gallardo (520hp) have to be more than adequate and enjoyable. I do however every once in awhile find myself in the mood for "more".

 

As mentioned before most people can't handle 500hp let alone anything above it. 650/750/850 is meaningless and for all practical puropses useless on the street. Vast majority of those who buy super car X with 1000 HP will never take that car any where near its performance potential but its nice to brag about it. Similarly people buy SUV X which is rated to do Y but never take it off a paved street, at the end of the day each are nothing more than a status play.

 

Well here is an example, I tend to enjoys driving my cars in real world situations. The 2 cars I keep looking at are the Ferrari California and the Maserati Granturismo. I like how the Ferrari drives more. But the cost savings on the Granturismo is tempting. The Ferrari has more power and weighs less but I have no idea how much the difference is. The Maserati has a useable backseat and the Ferrari doesn't.

All that said while the Maserati does feel a little heavier while driving it IS still a very nice car to drive. More then likely I'm still buying a Ferrari but I do still look at the 13 and up Maserati's that are running at about half as much as a California. It's just because I like the way these cars are set up to drive. If I cared only about horsepower I'd buy a hellcat and be done with it. There are killer deals on still new 16 hellcats, and I'd be into it for less then a used Granturismo. Though the Hellcat did impress me on how easy it is to drive given it has 700+ hp on tap. The only other car I considered was an Aston Martin DB9 or Vantage. But the Italian offerings won my heart.

 

More horsepower is useless unless the chassis, suspension, and brakes are at the same level as the power. If the rest of the package isn't there, then horsepower is meaningless. It's all about balance.

 

I could use another 50 HP in my 550...

 

To drive where? On the street? These cars develop 4,5,600 horsepower at 6, or 7000 rpm. Where are you going with that? If you go to the track, fine. Otherwise it’s just mental masturbation.