How a car is judged at Concours

All I can think of is, experience. The judges have decades of experience in the field. They know what is and what isn't.

 

I know a lady who used to be a judge, and she would pick a single obsure spot that is on every single car, such as the back of the gas pedal. She would weat white gloves, and then run her fingers across the back of the pdeal region, and if any dirt was found, it was a BIG nono!

 

There are printed standards...you start with 100 points, then lose points for each item found "not as original"....latest standards do not deduct points for normal wear and use, nor would a total resto add points necessarily........

Any FCA judges have time?...I'm busy so that's the short answer...you hear of "90 point car" or such in the sales arena..that's what they are talking about...anything past 95 points I'd personally say "close enough" and go get some rock chips on it......


Speedy drives 70 point cars and settles for "not on fire"....LOL!

 

All recognized Ferrari Concours use the judging process made by the Intl Advisory Council for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile -IAC/PFA.

They formed in 1984 to develop continuity in judging. The key purpose of the concours is to promote the preservation of the Ferrari in its original state. The focus of the judges will be on originality, authenticity and condtion.

The IAC/PFA committe meets twice a year and is headed by Ed Gilbertson and has 20 members - all with a background in Ferrari - historians, researchers, restorers, dealers, etc.

The committe also establishes the guidelines for judging. Each car will be judged by a 3 person team. Each judge evaluates one area (exterior, interior and engine/chassis). Each component is judged on orignality and condition - non factory additions are not considered original. One of the judges will be designate as the Chief Class Judge.

As mentioned earlier, you start with 100 points - each component will have a deduction of 0-5 points. A minium of 95 is needed for 1st. 90 for 2nd and 85 for 3rd.

After judging the team meets and reviews their score, then meet with the Chief Class Judges, who meets with the Chief Scorekeeper to confirm and sign the score sheet. The results go to the Chief Concours Judge (who does not have voting power). Once a car is nominated for a particular major award, the decision of the Chief Class Judges must be unanimous.

I'm out of time.....if you send me a PM I will try to answer any questions...

 

Good responses so far. The way I see it is that the most important thing about Concours is to encourage preservation of Ferraris in their original state.

By far the most important factor is originality. Since the mantra is "Ferraris are meant to be driven", that original piece doesnt have to be perfect- signs of use or patina is ok (to a point). For example rock chips are not (or should not be) a deduction.

Next if the part is not original, the was it restored or replaced authentically?

Next comes condition. For example, a patina'd original shift knob is better than a brand new aftermarket knob.

Next is cleanliness. In the world of Ferraris, a little road dust etc is ok. When I was assisting the judges at Cavallino this year I asked if we should deduct for water splashes on a fender on a particular car - the answer was no.

To avoid nit picking on trivial items in order to determine 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd, it is established that ALL who score above 95 points receive platinum. Again, this encourages people to participate and to promote preservation.

Generally, the judges are competent to judge only a few models they know real well. A 250 class judge will probably not do so well with 355s. On a national level I would only be competent in 328s, for example

 

Large charitable donations usually somehow make the car look much better...

 

The short answer is read the guidelines that Ed Gilbertson put together after many years of hard work. Most of it is covered there and there is a lot of good advice in there.

Most of the judges are either Ferrari historians (especially on the older cars), in the restoration business or Ferrari business, or amatures that have been around a lot of Ferraris. There is a push to have new judges train with a team at a national level event to learn the ropes and figure things out. I've judged at two FCA national events (late model 2+2's and TR/512/512M class). I feel comfortable with the modern cars built after 1972. There are enough judges around to handle the older and race cars.

As far as restoration, there is a lot of knowledge out there. Any deviation from the "norm" can be allowed if the owner can prove that the factory did it (usually by way of the build sheet). And yes, the guys at Pebble Beach know what finish belongs on what bolt and what color the wires are supposed to be. When you start looking at the costs to get to Pebble's level (min $100k no matter what the model), you better hope you're getting the right person to do the work.

 

Detailed Concours Judging criteria are in the "Concours Tips" archives linked at
www.fca-se.com

 

What if the car has an excellent,well matched paint but say has a resprayed front bumper or a resprayed panel ? Would that be a deduction ? Btw what are the chances of a daily driver to be a show winner ?
Yasir

 

If the paint is matched correctly, no deduction.

As for show winner, local, regional, national or Pebble beach concours?

A daily driver may win at best a regional event. You start getting into $500k plus cars that win the national concours. You never know what you're up against unless you enter...

 

Friends,

I got the silver at Ci for my 1975 Dino. I spoke to Ed on the phone prior to my trip and he was very helpful and gracious. I never thought that I would have won anything but was proud for my car that it won the silver. I know this is a little subjective but I drove my car both ways and the platinum and gold winners were both towed. I passed the gold on the way home on a trailer ( needless to say I was having more fun!!!). It makes it allot easier to keep the car totally original if you dont drive it. For example just the muffler I replaced on my car was a 250 lb behemoth nicknamed (at the time) "the barbeque" with a tubi, which on my car subtracked points but the original muffler was an abomination applied at the factory just to pass stringent US smog laws at the time. The air pumps which I have installed and working (but unhooked) raises the engine temp about 100 degrees (not kidding) not sure what is was supposed to do but "preservation" of the car was probably not its intent. There is abunch of other weird things about the gt4. My car was built in April 75, in July 75 Ferrari sent out a bulletin telling dealers to retrofit any unsold cars with series 2 modifications. I sent this bulletin to a fellow gt4 owner who posted it:

http://members.tripod.com/~ferrari308gt4/updates.html

Many cars as mine were modified before their initial sale, so what is original????? I have vitaloni CA mirrors on my car, the previous owners swear that they never changed them, however common wisdom says the gt4 in the US came only with chrome left side mirrors. Which is correct, the Euro cars had the vitaloni's and they were available here then as now, did the dealer switch them during the upgrades? I know that the original wheels were switched at the dealer for the Campangnolo Star mags, (which I still have) but I mounted QV 16" Chromodora wheels which were an option in the 1979 gt4 parts book. I know they were not technically correct and showed the judges all the info, however I feel that they are not toatlly incorrect either for that model (as opposed to 328 or 348 wheels). I also saved every part I have removed from the car, will never switch to electronic ignition, and even replaced my fans with original lucas fans. But there are some things hard to comprimise on: I use AWAB SS clamps on the fuel and water hoses and even though I use original water hoses I use CA safe fuel hose so my car will not catch fire. A car trailered does not need the modern tires or fuel lines as it not really driven. I hope that my silver was based on my car being as original as I could keep it and still have a few replacement parts (such as the tubi) that do not comprimise the integrity of the automobile. I will probably try again, and will get my originals wheels and the XWX's fitted, will I put back on the barbeque? Probably not..........

BTW my jack and tool kits were perfect!!!!!!

Respectfully

Rob

 

Save the BBQ for the 4th of July IMO. All smog controls were an after thought anyway from the factory, so that could also raise another originality argument based upon that alone. My BBQ (co-owned with YELCAB) is proudly displayed in my garage leaning up against a wall where it belongs. No joke about the 100 degrees. When my BBQ was on mine, it would singe the carpeting on the floor of my garage and would actually glow orange in color after a spirited drive. Nighttime outings were special as you could imagine. This baked on the factory undercoating on and around the wheel wells, engine compartment etc and helped the undercoating to peel off in sheets due to cracking from the heat caused by the BBQ. Fortunately, this only happened during the 1st month I owned mine. A euro ansa system miraculously appeared on the car one day the same day the air pumps, the idiotic microswitch fell off the car and the air injection was plugged. The car easily dropped 100 degrees in the engine compartment alone. Who knows how much longer my cam seals and other seals will last as a result. Shame on you for driving your car! Didn't you know that your car was NOT designed to be driven? The other GT4's won as a result of being trailered in. All Ferraris were meant to be trailered around and should never have oil in the engine or fuel in the tanks. *sarastic smile*

 

Big news and I stand corrected. Just got the new Prancing Horse #152. Ed officially retired after Pebble Beach and passed the torch over to Chris Current.

Interesting story on it all starting with page 22.

Check it out for some great insight.