Horn stopped working | FerrariChat

Horn stopped working

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by 88MONDIAL, Jul 9, 2020.

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  1. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    My horn stopped working after my Major over a year ago. I think once I got it back it worked intermittently for a week or 2, but has been totally dead since then. Something is a miss, any ideas what would be the culprit? It's a 1982 Mondial 8. Would like to have the neat sound back. :)
     
  2. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
    BANNED

    Feb 25, 2013
    1,259
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv
    Check to see if you are getting voltage on the horn terminals when you press the button.
     
  3. Cadillacbart

    Cadillacbart Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2013
    436
    Denver, CO
    Full Name:
    John
  4. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Where is the part I need to oil? Also, where is the horn terminals, under the horn button on the steering wheel? I have almost non existent electrical abilities.
     
  5. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Forget the oiling part, I relooked at everything and found the compressor and the little cap that states, "oil".
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Some easy things you can do to start the diagnosis:

    1) Ensure the fuse for the horn is OK. If OK --

    2) With key "off", just press the horn button;

    If you hear a relay "click" = good sign for most of the electrical stuff related to the horn and most likely it's a seized air compressor, bad air compressor motor/brushes, or bad air hoses between the air compressor and the air horns.

    If you don't hear a relay "click" = definite electrical problem probably in the horn button itself, the horn button ground connection, the horn slip ring, or the horn relay.
     
  7. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    You have to test the horn at least once a week, and the windows and all the other switches, or they will quit working.
     
    Cadillacbart likes this.
  8. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Okay, thanks for the detailed explanations Steve - I checked the fuse, it looked a little bowed but fine, without putting the key in I get nothing. I bet it's something in my horn button or connection or relay as you said. I appreciate the insite and the help!
    Jim
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, probably so. One other easy thing you can do is remove the horn relay and then touch a jumper wire from the 30 female terminal in the relay socket to the 87 female terminal in the relay socket like this:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    the air compressor motor should run and the horn sound (if all of that is OK). If OK, just try another ...113 relay in the horn relay position. If still no joy, then remove the horn button and investigate there -- when the wire going to the horn button is grounded = should actuate the horn relay = should sound the horn.
     
  10. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Okay, I think I'll finally learn something in 46yrs - what is a "jumper wire"? I hear it often enough here and other forums and I'm always dumbfounded as to exactly what it is. Is it simply almost ANY wire that you have laying around - no specific gauge or anything to do these tests with???
    Thanks again for the nice advice, this is cool stuff. :)
     
  11. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Also, what's "another 113 relay"? Is this a common one that you can just pick up at the parts store or something?
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #12 Steve Magnusson, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
    Yes, wire gauge is usually important for the amount of current that flows, but, in this test application, you are just going to touch it for just a second so anything like 18, 16, or 14 gauge would be fine. Just take a piece of wire about 6" long and strip about a 1/4" of insulation off of each end. You don't need any special terminals on the ends -- just touch the bare wire ends to the metal terminals in the relay socket.

    The horn relay on your model is a Bosch ...113 relay (the entire lengthy Bosch part number is stamped on the metal case of the relay). It is a very common relay that any auto parts store could match up with a different brand, but you don't need a new one yet. Just pull another ...113 relay out of your relay panel from some other function and put it in the horn relay position for a test. If that fixes the horn function, then get another Bosch ...113 relay (or its equivalent) to replace the bad one. If it doesn't, then the relay isn'[t the problem.
     
  13. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    And after you did everything Steve suggested and still doesn’t work, remove the air compressor and apply direct 12 volts from the battery and this will definitely determine if the compressor is bad or not.
     
  14. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    A jumper wire is any wire that you would use to jump two electrical contacts. For small stuff, I would use something like this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Alligator-Test-Leads-Electrical-Jumper-Clips-15-Double-Ended-Cable-Wire/191538656209?hash=item2c9897f3d1:g:21kAAOSwabBdrgAk
     
  15. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Thanks again for the tips and information! I have some 18ga wire from last year's garage door opener install I did, just have to find it. I'll report back my findings once I do. This is a nice experiment that will help my understanding with these types of problem solving skills.
     
  16. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    Okay, I jumpered it and nothing. Do I have to have the key on "ON" because nothing happened. Also, the relay directly below it labeled RH radiator fan is NOT there. Maybe all the relay's aren't used depending on model or something....?? Would anyone have any idea if that relay should be there on a 1982 Mondial 8?
     
  17. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    I would jumper the horn compressor first. If you have a small 12V source like a motorcycle battery, just leave the compressor in place and remove the wires from the contacts, then jumber the 12V to the compressor contacts. If you don't have a 12V source, you could use the car's battery. It should be pretty close to the horn compressor. You would need longer wires to jump from the car's battery. If the horn sounds with direct 12V applied, you likely have a faulty horn button.

    If the horn button contacts are corroded, sometimes if you just push real hard on the horn button it will work.
     
  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #18 Steve Magnusson, Jul 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
    No, the horn should work without the key "on" so you maybe have more than one issue. Next level would be to "jump" the air compressor motor directly as the other have suggested.

    The US OM and euro OM both show a relay I in the picture below the horn relay H, but there is no description given for relay I (so I think not having a relay there is correct -- and I'm having a vague recollection about a RH radiator fan being optional, and your OM shows only having a LH radiator fan in the cooling section). If yours is a US version this is what's shown in the OM for the relays:


    Image Unavailable, Please Login

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    Do your "labels" for the relays match this OM information? If you have a euro version, let me know, and I can post those pages.
     
  19. 88MONDIAL

    88MONDIAL Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2005
    1,052
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Full Name:
    Jim Smith
    I have a USA version. I would have thought my mechanic would have said something about the missing relay during the major - he mentioned the horn not working, and did mess with the fuse box for something I can't remember. It did work prior to the major all the time though. Thanks again for the insight guys, I appreciate it!
    Jim
     

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