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Honda to quit F1 after 2021 season

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Oct 2, 2020.

  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    Yah I agree. I was only agreeing on the FIA part. I hate how fake racing is honestly. Most series actually have you sign contracts so you can’t actually criticize any suppliers even when they are ruining your season.

    If you want compliments, win races. Easy.
     
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  3. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    Guess thats the end of the dream for Tsunoda unless Honda buy him a seat somewhere which is unlikely.Although AlphaTauri is still a possible?
     
  4. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    They're saying currently that Tsunoda won't be affected by Honda's exit.

    We shall see within 2 years time.
     
  5. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    That's obviously said to rile SF supporters on a Ferrari forum! The reality is that most are fed up with rules that stifle innovation and give a distinct advantage to the team in front. If testing is allowed then who know's, the Merc team could disappear over the horizon even further but at least it would be a level playing field.

    Personally i would like to see several teams competing for pole and the race win.

    Best

    tony
     
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  6. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    The rules are the same for everyone, and accepted by all the players.
    Also, like I said many times, the teams themselves are to blame for the testing restrictions; they chose that against more GPs and higher revenue.
    They probably couldn't foresee the consequences, but they took the money.
     
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  8. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    Totally agree with you and with hindsight most should not have signed up to it, the testing budget was getting out of hand and needed to be checked. However once in front you will always stay in front unless the lease is removed or you find a way of circumnavigating the rules!!
    Best
    tony
    .
     
  9. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I don't think lifting the testing restrictions would have created a level playing field.
    It always come down to budget, and some teams had more to spend than others.
    Now, with the forthcoming budget cap, I can't see how resuming free testing could work.
     
  10. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    only to be replaced by spending millions on simulators which is no substitute for track days! The level playing field is to allow everyone to upgrade their cars as and when they see fit to do so.
    Best
    tony
     
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  11. 1monza

    1monza Karting
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    I think the only way to level the playing field with a restrictive budget is to slow down the fastest cars. Penalize the fast cars by added weight, intake restrictions or some other means to "compromise" the fastest cars. I don't necessarily agree with slowing down the fastest cars but there is such a large margin between the fastest cars and the slowest. There must be some way to bunch up the field a bit. As long as the big teams have more resources the little teams will never have a chance to catch up.
     
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  13. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie
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    Spot on, but SF are now fighting with Williams at the back of the grid. Get it wrong and it shows big time.
    best
    tony
     
  14. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I don't agree with the idea of penalising performance: that's not what F1 is about.
    F1 has never been run as a handicap series, and the public has to accept that some cars, some teams are better than others.
    The idea of bunching up the field to negate the advantage gained by the leaders is frankly disgusting, in my opinion.
     
  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Helmut Marko: "We would prefer, under the condition the talks are positive, that we take over Honda's IP and then prepare the engines in Milton Keynes. But this is only possible if there is an engine freeze starting from the first race in 2022."


    Helmut Marko: "We need a decision about this from the FIA asap. If the decision is positive, then the next step is to find an agreement with Honda. We have several buildings and halls in Milton Keynes, Honda too, and we are checking at the moment where we could implement it."

    Helmut Marko: "We want and need a competitive engine. Max wants the same. But there is no concrete exit clause for him if we had no engine, no Honda engine."

    Helmut Marko: "All current engine manufacturers have their own team and build the engine with their chassis. We would get something where we have to build our chassis around. We would be faced with a technical solution that we have to accept."

    Helmut Marko: "That is why we prefer the Honda solution. But we go through all the possibilities. If something like that comes into play, it has to fit the overall situation, it has to make us competitive, a forced marriage is not a factor for us!"

    Helmut Marko: "There are no signs of a new manufacturer. The reason is the relatively short period of 4 years. The engines are too complex. And also the costs are too high. And with these regulations and at this stage, no new manufacturer is entering F1."

    Helmut Marko: "It would be only reasonable to bring the new engine regulation forward, but there is no detailed regulation yet. With all the pre-runs that are necessary for such a development, it can only be brought forward to 2025 at most."

    Helmut Marko: "The differences between Mercedes/Honda/Ferrari vary between 15/20hp. The Ferrari engine is currently a bit behind. But I think that they will catch up soon."

    Helmut Marko: "In addition, an adjustment of the engine performances by fuel flow meters etc. are under discussion. We are generally on the right track. If we continue to participate, it is also with an engine that can make us win / fight for championships."
     
  16. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #213 freshmeat, Oct 12, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
    I still don't understand the rationale of Formula1 "trying to stay relevant" with an ICE power unit...it's an oxymoron. ICE is on its way out the door...

    ...so hoping for any new manufacturer entrant is beyond wishful thinking; every OEM is frantically investing billions into EVs...it's why Honda is pulling out; there is no ROI on any sort of ICE power unit, the future is clearly electric and perhaps hydrogen/bio fuel.

    Or Formula1 should just embrace the dinosaur and shoot for pure entertainment w cheap NA V10/V12s that will deliver gladiator-style racing.
     
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  17. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    So, still ICE, no ?

    We risk throwing the baby with the bath water by abandoning the ICE too early.

    There is 120 years of technology there, ready to accept alternative fuels.
     
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  18. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Agreed! The billions as noted above grow daily. I put emphasis on your post in Red! Large amounts going to E. Will not occur quickly, but this movement has serious intent! F1 to change with it sooner than later. Formula E is more forward thinking than F1 in my opinion. Hence major makers joining that series more than F1 lately. I know Formula E lacks the speed of F1. I do think we see the future in Formula E.

    I love F1. I hope it will move to the future and stay interesting. I see limited options in the larger sense for F1 with respect to future power sources. Hybrid with biofuel or E. What else is there to use. Hybrid allows ICE to continue to allow range that E does not provide. Hydrogen is not as well placed as other options yet.
     
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    The ecology lobby has convinced the powers to be (the European Union, governments in Europe, in China, etc ...) that electric power was the solution to zero emission, and they have swallowed it without too many questions.
    That's why car manufacturers are adopting electric power to satisfy the law.
    Bio fuel has its detractors who see it as criminal to dedicate land to produce energy, rather than food.
    Obviously this has a great influence on motor racing in general and F1 in particular.
    F1 has to decide its technical rules years ahead to develop new power units; electric seems nearer than bio fuels.
    I am afraid that Hydrogen has missed the boat; apart from a few efforts (BMW?), there is not much state support for that solution.
     
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  20. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

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    NA V12 on bio fuel, bring it on. The wail of the V12 will drown out the screeching of environmentals.
     
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Hydrogen cars explained: the technology targeting a fuel-cell future

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/hydrogen-cars-explained-technology-targeting-fuel-cell-future

    Hydrogen has been touted as the ideal zero-carbon fuel for a couple of decades now, yet it has so far failed to catch on. However, in January of this year, the Hydrogen Council, an organisation comprising 92 major companies, claimed that the 2020s will be “the decade of hydrogen”.


    Honda calls on government to support hybrids, reduce EV focus
    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/honda-calls-government-support-hybrids-reduce-ev-focus

    Honda has called on the UK government to reduce its singular focus on electric cars and recognise the “important role” played by the latest hybrid models.




    There is still life left in ICE, as these articles show, and it is still very relevant in F1.
     
  22. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    Please no. Balance of Power is the worst part of sports car racing by far. It allows abuse and politics to run rampant.
     
  23. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    Totally agree. Racing and sports are just entertainment. You are doing the right thing if people want to watch. Reading more into sport is fine, but totally subjective. Obviously, just about all modern racing is heavily influenced by auto manufacturers. They compete as well, so let them really compete. If you are behind and want to break the bank to catch up - let them.

    What about freezing new parts on the lead car or engine until the next closest team is within some % per lap?
     
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  24. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Balance of Power was introduced in sports car racing to have a variety of cars to compete.
    Without it one design would dominate and the others may as well go home.
    In GTE, for example, BoP allows front engine, middle engine and rear engine cars, 4-cylinder, 6-cylinder, 8-cylinder, 10-cylinder and 12-cylinder, supercharged and atmospheric engines to race together.
    Nowhere can you find 12 different constructors to be in the same series, but you need to equalise to give each one a chance, obviously. .
    F1 doesn't need that, because the technical rules have already imposed most of the definitions and narrowed the parameters.
     
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  25. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    He was talking about slowing down fast cars - that is balance of power.
    You have a good definition of the intention in sports car racing. Are you as familiar with all the ways in which it can be cheated? In IMSA for example, Porsche figured out how to game the system.
     
  26. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    No, please enlighten me.
     
  27. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3



    Except Ferrari were not interested in developing hybrids. They are not a mass market brand.

    They should have walked away from F1.
     
  28. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    No no! The world ends if Ferrari leave lol :)
     

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