Hill Engineering Bearings/Ricambi America-Please Explain!!

Paul, from Hill Engineering is actually on Fchat.

I will bring this thread to his attention and he will soon answer your questions.

 

Have you made any attempt to search the archives???????

 

It is 0545 in the morning, and my blood pressure is now sky high.

Yes, I sold you the PT360 and CRB thrust bearing on May 6th, 2008. They were shipped to you on FedEx: 790999930428 and had previously arrived at Ricambi America from England on May 2, 2008 via FedEx: 858078114232. They are genuine Hill Engineering items.

William, rather than post something I might regret later, both Paul and I (with whom I have just spoken) will reply to this thread soon.

 

William,

This has just been bought to my attention and although you did send this to me by email 3 hours ago I did not get a chance to reply before you posted this.

The first thing I must say is that Hill engineering does not or has ever claimed to make the ball race that is used in our tensioner bearings - Just like a Valeo clutch release bearing - Valeo do not make the ball bearing unit. The bearings used in the 355 and 360 tensioners are actually specially made for us by NTN to our specification and we manufacture & assemble the rest of the components under our strict ISO9000 QA procedures.

Are you aware that SKF have manufacturing plants in 70 countries including Japan - They have a huge operation in Dalian in China - and yes, all the bearings that are produced there are marked SKF - China. Does this make these bearings inferior as they are made in China. The answer is no as all major bearing manufactures have global manufacturing sites and all run to their own quality standards so the case that it is made in China or India makes no difference at all - its all under the same control.


I have a customer waiting for me while I am writing this and will gladly come back later in the day and continue with this....

Paul

 

Paul will reply with more technical details, but now that I've had a coffee and seen the sunrise, let me offer these points:

1. Please don't confuse the issue of counterfeit bearings with this thread. A counterfeit bearing is one which doesn't list the country of origin, manufacturer name, etc. As the NTN bearing shown in your pictures illustrates, there is no attempt to disguise or conceal the source of the inner bearing itself. The particular NTN bearing used by Hill is a proprietary spec, made for their use in this exact application.

1.a There are specific design features inside that PT360 which make it unique to Hill Engineering -- which go far beyond the bearing source itself.

2. NTN bearings are known worldwide for their quality and construction. As Paul suggested in the prior thread, it all comes down to Quality Control -- and each bearing that arrives from Japan into Hill's Lewisham facility is re-reviewed and undergoes his own QC evaluation. So, we have two separate and non-intersecting Quality checks -- that performed by NTN in Japan, and the delivery check in England by Hill's.

3. The metallurgical prowess of Japan versus some other country can be debated all day long. It is not, in my opinion relevant to this discussion.

4. Hill Engineering bearings, after initial design underwent rigorous testing at http://www.mira.co.uk/ Rather than using some marketing hype or in-house testing methodology, Hill submitted its products to the most extensive (and sadly very expensive!) scrutiny available. The products performed flawlessly, and the Mira test results may one day be something that Paul publishes. Because there is proprietary and confidential information in them, it is certainly at his discretion.

5. We have sold literally thousands of these bearings -- a large percentage go to the premier Ferrari facilities in the world. I will not name specific customers because of my Privacy Policy, but they are on Fchat, and may identify themselves if they choose. They call for Hill Bearings by name. They tell me time and time again about the smoothness of roll, the build quality, the fit, etc. In a few cases, we have already seen "2 majors" on a Hill-fitted car. The techs who remove/replace the Hill bearing after 30k miles (miles, not years is the measurement I'm talking about) think the bearings continue to behave like brand new. (We nonetheless suggest replacement, because its such a small price to pay in the scheme of a major service).

6. A large number of Ferrari 355 Challenge and 360 Challenge cars around the world are fitted with these bearings. Challenge teams get all their Ferrari parts at HUGE discounts from their sponsoring dealership --- yet they go out of their way to buy Hill Engineering bearings, at retail price. Of course with the advent of the 430 Challenge series, most of these cars are relegated to HPDE days, but we still sell a large number of the bearings to people running these cars outside a competitive/sanctioned series.

7. The internet makes it difficult to assess tone-of-voice. Each reader of your original post may interpret different things. For me personally, the post seems combative and inflammatory. That's unfortunate, because rather than engage in productive discourse we're likely to spiral downward into an Internet slug fest with the whole world watching. I would prefer that not happen.

Regards,
Daniel

 

Ferrari does not make their own bearings, why would you expect Hill Engineering to do so?

Hill rigorously tests and backs up their product, as indicated by Daniel in his post, and that the part is more reliable than factory, so why the concern over the source of the bearing itself? With the quality assurances that Hill makes, you can be sure they researched and found the best available bearings for this piece.

Likewise, Ricambi America is known on this site as a FIRST RATE supplier of product to both end users and authorized repair shops. I have yet to see a thread here that made a supportable claim about his failure to provide top notch parts and service, before and after a sale.

I have not used Hill parts in my 360 yet, but have on my Dino. No doubt I will as service intervals occur. For that matter, who knows, my car may already have Hill Engineering parts, which causes me no worry at all.

Sometimes, we go off here without checking to see if the gun is loaded, and usually shoot ourselves in the foot while doing so.

I'm posting this as a Hill and Ricambi customer, not as a sponsor or moderator. This is my personal opinion, supported by my experiences with both suppliers, not an attempt to stifle the conversation in this thread.

Dave M

 

I have bought a couple of Hill Engineering parts for my 360M (although not bearings) and they are of VERY good quality. I wouldn't have any worries about their products or claims.

 

+1 on Ricambi, Daniel and David are always a pleasure to deal with and their integrity is rock solid.

 

just out of curiosity you claim that:


"1.a There are specific design features inside that PT360 which make it unique to Hill Engineering -- which go far beyond the bearing source itself."

what design features are those?

 

grease specifications and assembly tolerances, to name just two.

 

Actually, just to check, I went to Fedex and ran the tracking number.

There's no personal information given except that the package was left at your front door in Pomona, CA on May 9. No street address, no personal information, so that isn't an issue.

Additionally, without fanfare, Daniel is the owner at Ricambi, I suspect his posts have been cleared through upper management.

for the rest, I'll leave any further dueling to you guys.

DM

 

I apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding that may have resulted from our service, products, or delivery. If you prefer to return the bearings, we will issue a 100% refund with no questions asked. Because these are open boxes, I will destroy them upon receipt.

My direct telephone number is 336-499-2500 x101. Feel free to call me if you would like to discuss further the engineering attributes of these bearings and/or and my marketing of them on FerrariChat.

 

And what can be better than his offer to take back the bearings, no questions asked?

Ricambi (and Hill) have extremely good reputations - You can be sure that *if* they were "misrepresenting" their parts the people on these forums would be howling, and they're not - Doesn't that tell you something?

Good luck finding another source with the same quality.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

I have had many parts from Daniel/Ricambi with never a problem. (I have also bought a few of the Hill engineering parts, top quality) One part he warned me might not fit perfectly, and if not just throw it in the trash no charge! I feel he does a great job and is very honest and helpful with his business. I'm sure you two can work it out off-line.

Thanks for your thread on the 360 clutch job. Great pics and very infromative. Respectfully, Scott

 

I have only had the opportunity to order small parts for my testarossa, but Daniel has been a pleasure to talk to, and he is a fantastic resource here.

You know, just when I think my job and business ventures are irritating and a pain in the ***, I see what other people have to go through to run a business...the grass is no greener on the other side of the fence... You just can't please everybody...

Daniel gets my support...great guy

Bo

 

+++++1000.


Now this guy is b*tching over $40, give me a break!!!! Do us all a favor return the product and be done with it and move on.


Robert

 

118,742 happy customers and 1 crazy person.

 

I thought Ferrari constantly updates the tensioner design and throw out/thrust bearings.
I gather prople feel there are better solutions to be found at places like Hill Engineering.
Are they comparing these products with the current recommended factory parts or to the older factory parts?

 

Wow...just wow......

That assembly has a tracability number on the batch and everything..

I think the OP better carefully consider what he's doing here.........I don't do a lot with Ricambi but IMO it's a top notch operation, probably rivals or beats the factory network on many items......

That's NOT a counterfite bearing go look at them on the other thread.........

 

Ferrari fixes their internal problems for cars still under warranty, guys like Daniel and Hill take care of all the rest of us!!!

 

Missed that part of the argument.

Wow, then you should have purchased directly from Hill and saved the $40. Would have been a lot easier on ALL of us.

But since you didn't, there must have been some compelling reason to buy from Ricambi. I'm almost afraid to ask what that was.

DM