Heresy... | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Heresy...

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by vincenzo, Jul 29, 2019.

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  1. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
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    Tim
    A new VW GTI is faster than a Testarossa, I’m not sure why the thought of the C8 not blowing the doors off of a 30yr old car would cross anyone’s mind.


    That’s some seriously assumptive “sensing” going on right there. If you're right I’ll be hitting you up for stock tips.
     
  2. Gary Sandberg

    Gary Sandberg Formula Junior

    ?????
     
  3. Gary Sandberg

    Gary Sandberg Formula Junior


    Okay, xplodee, your comments came across as very strong, unwarranted and unwelcome and personally targeted.

    So, Class is now in session. To your first point, here is the link to a Car and Driver article comparing a 2014 Corvette to a 1990 Ferrari Testarossa. Oh gosh, 24 year difference.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15111494/new-vs-old-2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-vs-1990-ferrari-testarossa-comparison-test/

    I can envision the lines of the future article stating: "We last compared a front-engined Corvette to a mid-engined Ferrari Testarossa. Now we compare a mid-engined C8 Corvette to its benchmark, the mid-engined Ferrari 458, both V-8 engines........". Obviously there will be comparisons between all 4 cars.

    To your second point, I merely presented my observation and a comparison, no need to take it a little extreme (understatement).

    I remain a gentleman.
     
  4. shashi27

    shashi27 Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2006
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    Shashi
    I love vettes. That being said the day I took my C6 off the lot the door card came off. Didn’t matter though as the car was fast and fun.
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    you are wrong
     
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  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i already do all that with my 430.
    and then when i get done with it, its still a ferrari.
    and as i said in another thread, when i drive it to work today, it will be the only 430 i might see this week, vs the 50 or so vettes i will see this week.
    it all depends on what you want to get out of your driving experience - depending on when and what that is.

    if the c8 scratches that itch, then get it.
    but the c8 will never replace a ferrari in people's minds because it has far more meaning than to them than the performance figures.
    a ferrari evokes art, romance, fantasy. the corvette is none of those things.
     
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  7. Zeff

    Zeff Formula Junior

    Oct 8, 2018
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    Anything mass produced such as a vette will never be special. It is a fast but cheap build car. It is what it is. It was always built to be attainable to most. Any car can be made to be fast, put a big motor in a geo metro and it could beat a tr if u wanted. Still will be a pos. I don’t glamorize the vette it’s a cheap built car. I like them but I don’t want another one.
     
  8. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    ross has spoken.

    all hail ross!
     
  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    you asked. i responded.
     
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  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    How about a Librarian redhead whose secretly slutty? A grey BBi then.
     
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  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Would you buy a new vette or a mustang 500 or Gt350. Would you buy a new vette over a challenger. I think the pony cars may take a hit. Vettes sell in a great year 30k cars and then over the years taper off to 10k cars, why will this one be any different, in which case its stealing no ones sales, its just keeping the vette relevant which is great..

    Its also a Big car, a heavy car and not too stiff, its the supercar from 2000 that works, meanwhile the world has moved on. Ther new Ferrari v8 weights 3100lbs wet, thats a 500lbs difference, If you drive hard and fast on twisty roads thats real relevent.

    Would you rather have a new C8 with 650 hp for 140k or a used 458, to me its not even a question. Ill also bet that 15 years from now that 458 will still be around and still fun, the vette will be used tupperware for 15k, and long supercedded so ti wont seem like fun.

    Im hoping that the vette team makes a version that is light enough to really work on track. i'd love a relaible and disposable really powerful/fast track car to eat up the others. So far though the vette looks to be chronicaly overweight, not that stiff, and will compensate with excess power, hope Im wrong because that C8R shows what can/might be.

    Frankly if they get weight down, a great powerplant(coming for certain) and stffen it up, in other words a road going C8r, Im a buyer for sure
     
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  12. JoeTSI

    JoeTSI Formula 3
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    Word is the C8 Z06 will be a flat plane twin turbo V8.
     
  13. Zeff

    Zeff Formula Junior

    Oct 8, 2018
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    Exactly, let’s be honest here. After about 2 years this car will not even be relevant here.
     
  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    My point - saying so, does not make it so.
    Words mean nothing without factual backup.
    Back it up.


     
  15. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Average age of new Corvette buyer is 62. Satisfying a life long want.
     
  16. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i did in the very next thread.
    and it is not really possible to provide 'factual backup' to an opinion other than with another opinion.
    so you got my opinion.
     
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  17. RSQP

    RSQP F1 World Champ
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    Your statement is based on your opinion without factual backup, is it not?

    Is this a Nostradamus-type prediction where you were told TR prices would suffer, or am I correct in saying these are words based upon your opinion?

    They are different cars for different people and not necessarily mutually exclusive. The TR has a finite supply available. It's highly unlikely the C8 sales will even nibble at the secondary TR market.

    The TRs are purchased with cash. A large number of Corvettes will be paid for using time.

    But that's my opinion from having dealt with supply and demand in markets for the last 30 years.
     
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  18. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    #68 vincenzo, Oct 10, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    Seriously?

    Don’t be delusional.

    You prefer Ferrari for whatever emotional reason you hold - no problem. Free country (for now). Your decision is not based on a factual evaluation.

    Competition brings lower prices.... fact of life... not opinion. Do you really need to be educated on this? Look here - no worries, it has cartoon pictures:
    https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/games/off-site/youarehere/pages/pdf/FTC-Competition_How-Comp-Works.pdf

    Factual backup... a VERY brief sample. Do I really need to present more? I thought this info was so obvious that it was not worthy of discussion. Guess not.

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  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Lest see weight, 500lbs of extra lard. Extra long wheelbase not good. thats before we get into subjective things such as sound, leather smelly etc. Then there is the feeling of immediate speed and reaction which a 430 has in a way I doubt the new vette will. If you want to be objective theres things like depreciation, gues which one will go down to near zero.

    Lastly any of these cars is faster on road than pretty much anyone here is likely to go, so the objective performace on road is a nice paper number but thats it.

    The Vette is a great practical Gt ca designed to work for old duffers to carry two sets of golf clubs while being not taxing to drive, and may suffer for beign less rewarding to drive as a result. The ferraris are a far more fully imersive emotional and viceral experience harder to live with and more fragile, it all depednn then whats important to you and use profiles. These are all emotional purchases, and therefore obejective measures is only part of a larger equation.

    Just because a car is mid egined does not mean its small lithe or art in terms of design.

    The vette is going to sell 30k -40k units at first and then decline just like the previous ones. It will be sucessful if it retains its market share by attracting new buyers as the older demographic dies off.

    yes cometition brings lower prices, and thats a point to make to porche. Fearraris competition is maclaren.
     
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    Finally.... some facts.

    Granted - an extra 500 lbs (+/-)

    Disagreed - the extra wheelbase provides a more comfortable ride - engineering fact. Heck -when it comes to comfort, the Testarossa doesn’t even have power steering!

    Disagreed - the depreciation on an F-car will exceed the entire purchase price of a C8.

    Then once again... in your words..... we go off into “subjective”, “feeling”, “emotional”, “visceral”, “art”. Opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one.

    Don’t misunderstand - buying a car based on an emotional response is a perfectly fine decision. There is no right or wrong. But facts are facts - the C8 is competitive in all areas - by the numbers or by subjective “feelings”.

    It will be interesting to see some hard track data on the C8
     
  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    and all this will specifically affect prices of a car that first came out in 1984?
    does that even matter?

    what point are you trying to make?

    if you want to talk about the greatness of the C8, i believe there is a website for that exclusively.
     
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  22. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
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    You cannot use competition as a way to conclude testarossa prices will fall because of the comparison to a c8. They aren't competitive models.

    Thirty years span their market entry. People dont base decisions purely on power, weight, wheelbase, tire size, lap times, etc and then apply that formula to every car ever made. If they did then the 250 GTO would be worth nothing. This thread has been bordering on absurd.

    Its ok everyone, your testarossa is safe. Prices may come down but it is most probably from broader market forces than a new corvette. Like I said before, Testarossa owners are far more likely to buy a C8 than would be C8 owners are to buy a Testarossa.

    T
     
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  23. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    3,373
    “and all this will specifically affect prices of a car that first came out in 1984?”
    Time will tell - but in my opinion, yes

    “does that even matter?”
    Not to me - no plans to sell.

    “what point are you trying to make?”
    The C8 appears to finally have come of age and will blow the supercar market on its head. Even this 1st iteration C8 is a serious challenge. Wait until they dump another 3 or 400 hp into it and further refine the chassis. Even the lowly dodge is putting out nearly 800HP.

    Can you say SMACKDOWN?

    “if you want to talk about the greatness of the C8, i believe there is a website for that exclusively.”
    The point is COMPETITION and its impact on mid-engine Ferrari - specifically the Testarossa, but also the v8 variants.

    Is your cognitive dissonance causing you angst?

    let me repeat for those that might miss the point once again:

    COMPETITION

    “People dont base decisions purely on power, weight, wheelbase, tire size, lap times, etc and then apply that formula to every car ever made.” Now you know why there is a Testarossa in my garage.

    “absurd” is believing that people will not cross shop the c8 against other mid-engined supercars.

    but hey... you’re free to hold on to your beliefs!


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  24. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yea, i remember when i had my first beer.....
     
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  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    first beer or first bottles of beer? ;)
     

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