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Help!!

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by squidmark, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    #1 squidmark, Feb 29, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
    I am in need of a little assistance please - I am in the middle of rebuilding my 365 engine and have a come across a tricky issue! The driven gear that sits in the triangular support above the crank behind the front cover is damaged - I noted it appeared to be 'out of true' when inspecting cleaned sub assemblies, but on stripping the support of it's components I discovered that when originally fitted the woodruff key had become dislodged and cracked the driven's gears hub :-(
    So - I need a replacement gear, which apparently is NLA but has an eye watering price of £832.00 from Eurospares. I'm wondering if anyone has such a gear from a 'broken' engine, or has a suggestion as to where I might try to find one, as I'm pretty sure this is a rare part to have to replace and I'm currently stuck.
    I have my fingers crossed, but I fear the worst!

    Howard.

    PS It's part number 100197.
     
  2. vespasian

    vespasian Karting

    Nov 28, 2011
    55
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Alex
  3. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    just because the part is for a Ferrari the price is disgusting. Same BS when i needed timing gears for my 4.9 Maserati. So i had a shop make the things. I will look about. i have a 365 motor in parts anyone know if the gear is the same?
     
  4. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Howard
    That is a truly remarkable price there must be a way round this, I thought the Renold (waterpump chain tensioner) was silly at £240.00

    You could build a factory and make one for that money

    I can only sympathise at this time ime working at the same part of the engine. Best of luck if anything comes up will let you know.

    Ime pretty sure this is the same part on 365 400 and 400i probably 412 also.
    Regards
    Alastair
     
  5. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    give me 2 days, i may have found a good used one in another garage.
     
  6. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    To be honest I think I have everything crossed! I have checked and the gear is the same as that found on 365/400/412 according to Eurospares website - and I have made enquiries there for a used one already (thanks for the idea though Alastair) but no luck yet. However - if you can find me one Mitchell I think I'd be your friend forever...

    And maybe not quite so poor?

    Howard.
     
  7. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    so we have a crank drive gear then two idler gears, one for each bank then the cam gears. This is about the two idler gears, right? 300 ea. used good take off, already off and ready to ship. i will wend the thing and if you like it you can pay me if not throw the thing away and we will start again
     
  8. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    100207 on eurospares, item #5 in valve train pictures
     
  9. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    I nearly got excited, but then realised I think we're talking about different parts! I need item 3 (pt.no. 100197) on that same page, not 5 - sorry if I didin't describe it properly, although I did put the pt.no. on my first post. If you have item 3 available then maybe pm me?

    Many thanks, Howard.
     
  10. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    i will start again, this drives the oil pump. right?
     
  11. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    No it drives the auxilliary shaft it is keyed to (and is paired to smaller gear on the crank, from where it get's it's drive), and sitting next to it on the same short auxilliary shaft is the chainwheel which drives the cam chain - the oil/water pump chain is driven by the chainwheel fitted directly onto the crank itself. If you have a partially stripped engine, then my guess is you might not have separated these two gears from their shaft as it is housed in a three legged alloy support and comes off as a complete assembly very easily - and generally doesn't cause problems...

    Many thanks for the assistance so far - Howard.
     
  12. 400iGuy

    400iGuy Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2004
    1,055
    Central Florida
    Full Name:
    Al
    Some photos might clear up the confusion.

    Al
     
  13. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    #13 squidmark, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Great minds think alike - I read my post afterwards and thought it sounded complicated - so remembered to have my 'phone handy today whilst near the offending part! Pic 1 shows the broken down assembly (support, shaft, damaged gear and chainwheel) as does Pic 2, whilst Pic 3 is my 'phone's best effort of a close-up at the damaged bit.

    Enjoy, Howard.

    PS I know the damage looks fresh, but it really isn't - it's just a trick of the light - where the woodruff key became dislodged on original assembly it has just popped a piece out of the gear hub and twisted the whole gear.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    still digging through boxes
     
  15. cig3

    cig3 Rookie

    Mar 14, 2009
    12
    Grand River, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bloom
    Why not take it to shop and have it magnafluxed. If there are not cracks in the break area have it welded by a reputatable welder and a new keyway broached in. Porbably on cost $100.00 total.
     
  16. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    I have every faith in you!! You might be my only salvation short of taking out a second mortgage.

    And cig3 - that's a fair point re maganafluxing - problem is that not only is the hub damaged on the side you can see in the picture it's also damaged on the other side, plus the gear runs out of true to the hub (which is what alerted me to the problem in the first place). I think when the gear was originally fitted it must have grabbed the woodruff key and tipped it up slightly, so when the gear was pressed fully home and the nut was done up it cracked the hub and twisted it slightly. When I managed to remove the gear, the key was sheared off completely - so either someone has been in there again since the seventies, or just caused more damage failing to get the jammed gear off...

    That's life!
     
  17. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    used, good take off
     
  18. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    please answer through e-mail. provide ship to name and address
     
  19. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Hello Mitchell
    On the offchance would you be interested in selling the 'renold tensioner' which is the spring loaded tensioner for the oil waterpump chain?
    Regards
    Alastair
     
  20. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    need part number, please
     
  21. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Its part no 114 329 tendicatena (renold tensioner) eurospares have them but $$$$$ there on oil and waterpump page part no7 in the diagram. on there website.
    Thanks
    Alastair
     
  22. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    new, no used so far
     
  23. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Mitchell
    Apologies bit the bulit this morning and went with eurospares as I was needing a whole load of stuff so managed to negotiate with them. Now for the fun bit getting it all back together.
    Regards
    Alastair
     
  24. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    7,090
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    do you or not need the gear
     
  25. squidmark

    squidmark Karting

    Sep 11, 2011
    137
    Oxford
    Full Name:
    Howard Dent
    Hi Mitchell - if you are asking me about the gear I started the thread about, yes please! I sent you an email with my address details on a couple of days ago - did you not get it? If I need to post the info on here instead I can do that instead.

    Howard.
     

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