HELP: Sabre français d'Officier d'Infanterie, modèle 1821

Very nice collection, you need a real spécialist.

 

It could perhaps (I mean: COULD) stand for “Fourbisseur Privé”, this by opposition of having been done by a State-owned manufacture.
The 1821 Saber was the first attempt at standardization on a model, and it would have make sense to the identify the provider of the weapon.
What would be a bit puzzling is that usually “F.P” was followed by the name of said “fourbisseur”.
Sorry for not being able to help more, I am no expert on sabers, but still got reminescences from my national service in the Cavalry (we had tanks, by then…) 32 years ago.

Rgds

 

Well, I don’t know how familiar you are with the 19th century french army, so a few additional words may be helpful here; if you know this already, simply disregard this post.

Officers were supposed to buy their own kit, that is military uniforms, clothes, and weapons with their own money. Weapons must nevertheless conform to an established standard, more so after 1820: as we have said yesterday, the year 1821 was the first attempt at standardizing the design for the infantry sabre.

Therefore, a Sept 28th, 1820 “circulaire ministérielle” (official reglementation from the ministry) stated the rules for sabre blades: if the sabre was to be used in a military campaign and maybe in combat, the blade MUST have been forged by a state authorized arsenal/manufacturer, which was Klingenthal at first, then Chatellerault; this must be engraved on the blade.
Blades having “F.P” engraved come from “Fourbisseurs Privés”, that means “private manufacturers”, by opposition to those made by a state arsenal, and are therefore not authorized for campaign or combat, but for sabres bought for parade or receptions only.

Usually “F.P” is followed by the name of the provider, but not always. We cannot of course rule out that it is the initials of the owner, for instance “François Pignon”, but my guess here is that it does indeed mean “Fourbisseur Privé” and that it is therefore a parade sabre, not a "combat-ready" one.

Rgds

 

Still the early bird, like always? May I nitpick slightly, like I use to do with 308/328 tool rolls?

I know Klingenthal well...it didn't stop manufacturing blades due to the German annexion.

(And, by the way, ANNEXION, NOT occupation; don't start me on this...the French living in those territories were not living in German occupied France after 1871: they were annexed to Germany and became Germans; we are rather susceptible about this...legally speaking, my four grand-parents were born Germans, they became French again after 1918, but you had to fulfill a file for this...)

Kilngenthal lost its "Royal Warrant" as soon as 1833, so was no more an "approved provider" but continued to manufacture blades under the name "Couleau".

Klingenthal, Bas-Rhin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rgds

 

My remark was more or less lighthearted; with the passing of time the wounds of annexion have healed, but my grand parents would have been more sensitive, I guess.

By the way, very few people know that people in Alsace and Moselle were so tired of seing their land disputed between France and Germany that, at the end of the first World War, when it became known that the land was to be returned to France after 47 years of annexion to Germany, they decided that it was not to be and formed an independant soviet republic, the soviet republic of Strasbourg, which lasted 11 days and was internationally recognised by the United States, before France decided that enough was enough...

Back to Klingenthal: the history is the factory is very simple: after the "restauration" in 1815, more and more people in Paris became convinced that it was not very clever to have the most important steel works for blades so near of the German border, so a progressive transfer of the blade forging and casting activity to Chatellerault was organised, this as to have blades manufactured from a place less exposed to Germany; the transfer was completed in 1835. So the loss of the activity for Klingenthal was entirely due to its location, it has nothing to do with quality of work.

A very short sum-up of its history can be found here, in English:

The history of the manufacture

Rgds

 

Nice collection!

I inherited a French Infantry Officer Modèle 1882 sword made by Chatellerault in December 1900. Do you have any idea of the value of that sword by any chance?