Help a Porsche guy choose a Ferrari ;)

Hi folks, I'm brand-new here (been lurking a while.) I'm a longtime Porsche guy — currently have a 718 Boxster and a 718 Cayman S. Much more fun than any 911. But anyhow, I digress.

I've always been attracted to Ferraris for obvious reasons. It's time to make the dream a reality. I'd love to hear any suggestions on the three models I've narrowed my search to. It's got to be a mid-engine, two-seat convertible, with decent reliability. (Porsches really spoil you in that respect.) So that narrows it down to three models: F430, 458, and 488. It won't be a daily driver, but also don't want it to be a garage queen.

My top choice would be a 488 Spider, but the $360K average price is a bit tough to swallow. Doable, but that's slightly more than my airplane cost, which seems a bit crazy. I love the 488's look, though.

My next choice would be a 458 Spider (prices not much lower than the 488).

I also love the look of the F430 -- there are decent examples around $130K or so, which is obviously a dramatic difference from the 458. Its performance is also basically an exact match for my 718 Cayman S. I wouldn't go for anything earlier than a 430, because I can't imagine buying a Ferrari that's slower than my Porsches...and once you start getting into cars that old, in my experience, they become more 'labors of love' than 'awesome weekend entertainment.'

My key questions:
1) Is there a significant difference in reliability between the 430 and the 458/88? Obviously the typical 430 is ~15 years old, so you'll have the wear-and-tear items inherent in any car of that age, but are there major differences (such as the horror stories I read about the F355 needing to drop the engine for routine work?)

2) In terms of performance and general usability -- differences between the 430/458/88? I've read the whole debate between 458/488 drivers about the turbo/ non-turbo situation (we have the same arguments in Porsche-land, when Porsche slapped turbos on what is now the 718 line). I'm mostly interested in the basic question: If you've moved from a 430 to the 458/88 (or vice versa), do you feel that the 458/88 is worth essentially 3X as much as the F430?

3) When looking for a F430, 458, or 88, what are the big gotchas I should look for? Obviously this is less of an issue with the -88 since most of them are very young cars with low mileage.

And if anyone has come from Porsches to Ferraris, how would you describe the different ownership experience? Both my Porsches have been utterly flawless in 3 years and 20K miles (each) in terms of reliability. Having owned an Alfa 164 for many years I'm slightly terrified of the thought of owning another 15-year old Italian car (hah!)...it's not the cost I'm worried about, it's more the idea of the car (like a F430) being in the shop half the year. Porsche routine service costs ain't cheap ($400 for an oil change, $1,000 if that includes a spark plug replacement)...are Ferrari costs similar?

Sorry for the long-winded first post. but would love to hear any thoughts

Thank you!

 

Yup, I did -- I've spent the past couple weeks reading until my eyes bleed in the 458/88 and 360/430 sections. Lots of great info. I was just hoping for the abridged Cliff Notes version

 

That is great advice, thank you. I didn't think of joining the Ferrari club (duh!).

Part of me just figures that, since I don't have the time to be chasing down parts and frequently taking the car to a shop, I should just bite the bullet and splash out on the newest car, with a warranty remaining, that I can find. That would limit my search to the 488. The other part of me realizes that the nearly $200K price difference vs. an F430 will pay for a heck of a lot of maintenance. So there's that.

 

That's a great piece of advice and exactly what I'm looking for. I found a 'F360 buyer's checklist' on this forum but it didn't have much maintenance-specific info. And it was specific to the 360, not the 430. Are there any 430 owners or mechanics who could share a list of common failure points, which I would want to ensure I include on a PPI?

I think what it boils down to is this: I'm less concerned about the total cost of maintenance, than about the frequency and difficulty of finding available mechs and sourcing the parts. I'm also a pilot and light aircraft owner, and right now we're seeing significant challenges with regards to aviation maintenance, because all the mechs who used to swing wrenches on light aircraft have gone to the airlines. And parts, even for relatively new airplanes like mine (a 2006 model, which in aviation circles is practically new), are becoming very hard to come by, leaving many of us wondering if we're about to have very expensive paperweights in our hangars.

So to put it simply: While obviously a 15-year-old car like the F430 will require frequent maintenance, is it still a relatively reliable car? Or should I have my wife follow me in one of our Porsches in case I break down?

 

Ain't that the truth. My maintenance tracking spreadsheet on my aircraft has 152 recurring inspections and parts replacement tasks (I just counted). Everything from 3000-hour wing attachment inspections to 25-hour oil changes. (Works out to about 6,000 miles between oil changes.) The biggest challenge is parts, and this is for an aircraft that was in production until just 4 years ago. But it sounds like a F430 wouldn't have parts issues? Guess I need to talk to an indie shop and get their input on what it takes to keep something like a F430 on the road. Cost is less of a concern to me than pure downtime, or the possibility of encountering situations where parts are unobtainable.

 

Hah, yes, you are indeed very qualified to answer. Congratulations on having such incredible machines. I looked very hard at the 992S, but ultimately my 982CS suits me and my wife better, as does our 982B. The 992 is a fabulous car, though.

I do have to go drive a 458, you're right. And a 488. In all my readings, though, I'm leaning towards the 488 because honestly when I think about how I drive, low-end torque is quite important to me; I live in an urban area where most of my thrills in daily driving can only come from accelerating onto freeway onramps. It's hard for me, day-to-day, to keep the revs up enough, which is why I chose the 718 generation of Porsches rather than the 981 generation Cayman GT4 or Boxster Spyder. The turbo'd engines might sound like a VW Bus, but they do provide that always-on low-end torque around town. But yes, a test drive would be a must.

The question is, where? (This is a serious question.) When I call a Porsche dealer, they can see how many new Porsches we've bought in the past, through the dealer network, and I immediately get the red-carpet treatment, which I'm sure Ferrari does for its loyal customers. With a Ferrari dealer...given that they have no clue who I am, what's the best way to actually get a test drive in one of their used cars?

And finally -- I keep looking at some of the nicer used 430s out there — I could buy a $130K F430 without really thinking about it, but the $330K 488 would be a more significant decision. That, and 488/458 prices have gone bonkers in the past year, while 430 prices seem to have experienced less of an inflationary bubble...

 

I did indeed read the thread about the guy who hasn't seen his car in 2 years. I can't even begin to imagine.

You're absolutely correct — a solid mechanic, whom you can trust, is absolutely essential to exotic car ownership, and to aircraft. That's where I need to start, if I go for an F430. For a 458/88, I wouldn't be so worried (I mean, how many things can break on a 4-year-old car with 5K miles? Hopefully not too many.)

I'm so tempted by the price on an F430, however I have a different mindset about car maintenance than aircraft maintenance. For my cars, I don't want to have to think about maintaining them so much. I had an Alfa 164 and a Spider Veloce for many years, and my dad still has two original Lotus Elans plus a Lancia Fulvia Zagato. You own those cars not because you need reliable transportation, but because you somehow *enjoy* the hunt for that one exhaust flange that nobody makes anymore. With aircraft ownership, it's in the shop usually every other month (for routine service), and every year, for about 4-6 weeks, during which time you dread any calls from the shop, simply because each call usually means they found another $5,000 part that needs replacement. I'm used to that (there's no way around it in aviation) -- but I really don't feel like dealing with it when it comes to cars.

You're right, though -- the first thing I need to do is make a connection with a reputable Ferrari shop within reasonable driving distance. Fortunately I live in the SF Bay Area and not in North Dakota

And finally -- I do need to drive all 3 cars. I haven't a clue about them beyond what I've read. Ten minutes in each car would make the decision much easier.

 

This might sound ridiculous but I showed many many pics of both the 458 and 488 to my wife and she strongly preferred the 488, based purely on the rear quarters where the 488 has air intakes. The 488 just looks better IMO. Her words: "It has hips. You like cars that have hips. Just like the Boxster." I think she's given up on the idea of me being responsible and not spending $350K on a weekend car

That said, I do need to drive them back-to-back. I read all of the discussion in the 458/488 threads about the different engines. Exactly like the Porsche debate about the 981 Cayman S / GT4 (6-cylinder NA) vs. the 982 Cayman with its 4-cylinder turbo. I test drove both and found that I preferred the 982, simply because its low-end torque was much more usable and fun around town. I had to work really hard in the 981 GT4 to keep the revs up and get that same feeling. But yes, the Ferraris are obviously different beasts.

That's great to hear! It's funny, just the other week I got a call from a guy who had never flown my type of aircraft before (they are not very common) but is in the market for one. Before plonking down $400-$450K, he wanted to fly one, and there are hardly any for sale. So I took a spin with him. Pilots are trusting like that...and I've found the Porsche community is the same way. Glad to hear that you prancing-horse types are equally friendly

 

Well I'm an airline guy but don't hold that against me For fun I have a 2006 Columbia 400. Columbia and Cessna did a terrible job of marketing that airplane, which is why there are so few. There are only about 5 of them for sale right now, plus a few TTxs. The market is nuts. I paid $285K cash for mine in October 2020 with 1300 airframe hours and just 130 hrs on a factory engine and prop.

Just turned down an unsolicited$400K offer for the aircraft.. They're going to have to pry the keys out of my dead hands before I sell. I get postcards every couple weeks from dealers asking to buy my airplane. I'm sure you have the same with your SR22...

 

Haha, yes, not to derail the thread into aviation but you're absolutely right about the Columbia. I'd always wanted one since the day it first flew. It's just an amazing machine that blows the doors off the Piper Turbo Arrow I owned for 15 years.

The SR22 is indeed a great aircraft. I just prefer the -400. It's the closest thing to an airborne Ferrari that I'll ever own.

Wise decision on your part regarding your flying mission compared to the time you had to stay sharp. Lots of guys don't bother staying current, and that can end unhappily as we all know. I've got almost 10,000 hours logged and even with the little rocket ship in my hangar, there are plenty of weather situations I will not tackle in a piston single. Whereas in my airline gig... If the airport is open, we're basically going no matter what. We just hope that other pilots don't realize how much easier airline flying is, compared to GA flying

(And for anyone wondering, how can an airline pilot afford all these toys... That's actually my second, side job. First job is the one that pays the bills. Even Delta heavy captains don't usually clear enough to have so many toys... especially as most of them are already on their third wives. No disrespect to any Delta Triple drivers on here, though)