Heat shielding on F40 | FerrariChat

Heat shielding on F40

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Nov 7, 2020.

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  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    As we are putting the F40 back together again, and remembering some of the recent fiery tragedies documented on YouTube, I am wondering whether I should put some kind of heat shielding efforts into the engine compartment.

    Thinking maybe something more around the turbos, maybe an exhaust wrap.
    Has anybody done something like this and have any pointers?


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  2. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I wouldn't do anything that is not reversible, although your physical protection is certainly a good idea.

    If you get into wrapping stuff, do a bit of research to ensure that the metallurgy can withstand additional heat without causing the part to fail on you. I remember back in the late 1960s when emissions were just beginning on cars, one strategy was to run engines hotter. However, it was not completely thought thru and there was a rash of water pump impeller separations because the metallurgy had not been upgraded to withstand the added thermal load.
     
  3. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The exhaust is a Tubi. Don’t know if that makes any difference.


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  4. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Tubi probably has a big safety factor built in, but try to quantify.
     
  5. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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    All pretty irrelevant if you have fuel squirting around the engine bay, its going up in flames regardless, which the vast majority of the losses were caused by.

    Key thing on any car is to ensure the fuel gets from the tank into the combustion chamber via the highest quality lines and fittings to avoid any failure.
     
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  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes. goes without saying.
    that was part of the revamp.
    i am just looking to improve heat shielding - hot turbos and exhaust can still boil the gasoline in new silicone hoses.....
     
  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Exactly.

    The F40 has substantial engine exhaust, turbocharger & waste-gate heat shields in situ already as shown in the parts manual, the factory thought about this, meanwhile the cars you see catching fire are doing so because of deferred maintenance.
     
  8. mrknowitallf40

    mrknowitallf40 Formula Junior

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    Most silicone hose is not designed for use in fuel service. It has to have a special liner in order to be used at all. Don’t let the appearance of a red rubber hose lead you to believe it’s made of silicone. Make sure that whoever installed it is aware of the difference .
     
  9. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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  10. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I am currently in talks with them to get some straight pipes done. I also just ordered a full Larini exhaust system for my 355 (not yet received) and according to Thermo Met, they do alot of the shielding/wrapping work for Larini. I contacted Thermo Met because I wanted all the shielding to match.
     
  11. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Here are some Larini products for reference. Most of their new stuff comes with this bespoke shielding starting this year.

    BTW. I found this out on my own. Larini did not disclose their sources. But Thermo Met outright told me they do alot of shielding work for Larini. The workmanship looks identical.
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  12. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    these guys are good.
    i spoke to them this morning, and he explained how it works and what they could do.
    unfortunately all of my parts are here and they are there.....
    am tempted to buy new exhaust, and maybe other stuff, in the uk and have it shipped to them and have them apply this treatment and then send to me....i would end up with spares, but there are worse things.

    am looking for those parts now, so if anybody in the uk has some spare parts sitting around let me know ! :)
     
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  13. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    #14 ShineKen, Nov 11, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
    There are a few companies in the U.S that do similar work, but not nearly as clean looking imho. Actually alot are rather sloppy looking and I've searched high and low. Thermo Met and GoodFab in the U.K are the sources to go with. I have not spoken with GoodFab, but Thermo Met seems like a solid group of guys. They give me straight answers. I hope everything works out for you. Don't forget to post pics :).
     
  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Btw, are you going with Stainless Steel or Inconel shielding? Inconel is not much more, I'd just go with that. It is an F40 afterall :)
     
  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I think there was a used Tubi exhaust in the classifieds. Let me find it.
     
  16. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    thanks for your help ken. greatly appreciated.
    i am scheduled to go see the car and all of its guts laid out, and get an idea of the timeline for completion, sometime hopefully later this week.
    once i have figured that out, and if there is a lot left to do, i might end up sending my own parts over to thermomet instead of buying new.
    anyway, some more thinking and discussion with the tech are required.
     
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  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i inquired about this angle a bit with some more experienced friends, and they said similar things....the oem exhaust headers may not be made of sufficiently durable metal to withstand that heat being kept on them all the time instead of being released.
    the other point that was made in these discussions is that it is not a great idea to either wrap or coat the turbos since the heat soak after you have stopped moving could be enough to damage the bearings coz the oil is no longer moving through them.
    the tubi is made of 321 steel so it would be fine.
    but if i am leaving the turbos unchanged, and the exhaust headers unchanged, then doing anything to the tubi downpipes seems rather pointless.

    so i am going tomorrow to see it in person as said, and right now i am thinking that the best option may be to simply install some removable electric fans that i can switch on at will from the cockpit when i am stuck in traffic or some other situation where the air is not flowing. the fans would exhaust the air and keep things within operating temps more effectively.
    i think i may also wrap the fuel lines and maybe some of the wiring just to keep them from baking.

    i would not worry so much about these things except that here in houston the ambient temps in the summer just gets stupid hot.
    i dont intend to run it much in the summer, but it happens.
     
  18. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    the F50 has two fans in the engine bay floor pan, have a look at them, it would be "cool" to integrate something like this?
     
  19. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

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    here you go, see in the below diagram, doubt many people or owners even know they are there, as you cant really see them when looking at the engine.

    they are operated off a 180 second delay relay, so they supply cooling by sucking the heat out for 3 minutes.

    A good sparky could wire you a similar set up, and integrate an override switch hidden under the dash, so you can switch them on when you feel the temperature creeping up - i imagine you can buy much stronger, better performing fans today compared to the original F50 design.

    https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/f50/bodywork-lighting/body-lateral-elements-flat-floor-pan-and-rear-wheelhouses-20885
     
  20. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    this is exactly what i was told ydy.
    thanks for the link !
     
  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    ok. so had an hour with the tech today and we went over everything.
    i have the upgraded IHI turbos, but when they installed those, they also put in new exhaust headers and they are shielded ! along with the tubi that is not, but doesnt need to be.
    we went through the rest of the parts and agreed to add additional shielding in the areas that are already partially shielded around the tanks, and then to wrap the fuel lines and shield the electrical parts.

    the fan idea was good, but frankly i dont know that it would make that much difference in the end - the entire car from top to bottom is pretty much open, so the heat can escape.

    anyway, i have come full circle and concluded that i dont need to do very much given the upgraded parts already installed and the stock airflow.

    it was also great to see it all spread out with all the parts being cleaned up and restored.
    should be ready to roll in around xmas.
     
  22. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    forgot to add that the fire suppression system will be upgraded and reinstalled - passenger and engine compartments.

    so am feeling a lot better now.
     
  23. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Pics would be cool with the car opened up !


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  24. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 ross, Nov 13, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
    you will have to wait for more .....the engine and transmission are currently completely apart in a few different rooms....
    dont fret, you will have this experience at some point.
    but when they come back together fresh off the rebuild they feel great !
     
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