Hands-On Review: CXC Simulations Motion Pro II Racing Simulator! | FerrariChat

Hands-On Review: CXC Simulations Motion Pro II Racing Simulator!

Discussion in 'Technology' started by Jedi, Sep 28, 2010.

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  1. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    Dave
    #1 Jedi, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
    On September 21, I had to be in the LA area on business and Chris Considine
    of CXC Simulations (www.cxcsimulations.com - an F-Chat sponsor) was kind enough to
    allow myself and a business associate about 2 hours on their Motion Pro II racing
    simulator. I was SO impressed with his machine that I decided to write a full review,
    unsolicited and unbiased in any way by anyone at CXC Simulations. The only input
    from Chris was tech specs and other details.

    Since I know everyone wants the video, I'll post the link right here to start off :)
    Be sure to select the higher resolution button, go full-screen, and TURN IT UP LOUD!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNDqHR4zkI8

    My Review

    1. Background: MOST of us have driven a so-called racing simulator at one
    time or another. I have a wheel and pedals and play GTR2, etc. I've played on an
    HRS brand "arcade style" sim in a cruise ship arcade; at CES-2009 I drove the
    Motorsports brand "toss your lunch pulling G's" simulator. However, in my opinion,
    ALL of the above are just video games. They do NOT "simulate" how a given car
    behaves on a track - they just FEEL like it. They are built to toss you about and
    have fun - NOT to learn a car and its setup on a real track!

    2. What CXC is about: Chris is a trained race car driver - and has been
    doing simulators for a long time as a player. He and his team have attempted to
    design a TRUE race simulator - a "low mass" frame that allows you to perceive
    and react to G-forces, but NOT to mask the SUBTLE STUFF. With CXC, the idea
    is that EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH gives you feedback about your situation. There
    are no massive hydraulics damping the subtleties - without those subtleties, you'll
    never really FEEL the changes in wings, tires, suspension, etc. This can ONLY
    be done with a lower mass mechanism. After the low-mass design, the next huge
    innovation is in the SOFTWARE. More on that later.

    3. My initial impressions: Walking into the tidy nondescript factory of CXC
    in Marina del Rey, the first thing I noticed was the Motion Pro II system in the corner,
    booting up all 3 screens for my visit. Wow! It looks great in pictures, but in
    person it's amazing. It's even a bit intimidating. It doesn't LOOK like a typical
    arcade-grade sim - it's technical, solid, real. And not tacky like the "vomit car"
    sims I've tried - no fake fenders, no fiberglass panels, no AGIP stickers. My first
    impression is this machine MEANS BUSINESS

    4. Build Quality: As a technical guy and a geek, my first curiosity after
    the initial "OMG" reaction was to peer at the build and assembly. And it's SOLID.
    It looks "aircraft quality" - no-nonsense in every aspect, clearly built for function.
    Diamond plate flooring, aircraft-aluminum assemblies for the steering linkage to
    the encoder, the 3 floor pedals - the motion feedback elements on the rear. It really
    seems to me to be built to the same standards you'd expect an airplane to be
    built. No more, no less. And nothing out of place - the computer isn't visible
    (not even sure where it is!), zero USB cables to be seen, nothing sloppy or
    home-made appearing. I will grant the console face is carbon fiber - that's
    perhaps the only concession to "pop race culture". But I can forgive that quite
    easily in light of the rest of this machine. And just for the record, a label on
    the rear of the seat states a maximum of 250 pounds - however, this just
    means that's where performance might begin to degrade. Chris tells me they've
    had people that weight and more many times to no ill effect other than degradation
    in the subtleties of performance.

    5. Setup and Optioning: I was quite impressed with the speed at which
    Chris was able to boot us up, jump to my favorite track (Monza ca. 2007),
    select a car and leave the pits to race. All system control is via a compact
    Blue Tooth remote control (see attached photo). This single interface is all that's
    needed to set every possible option - car, track, vehicle setup, customization of
    the 18 user-defined buttons on the wheel and console. While Chris did all the
    action with the remote during setup, I followed along very well - the learning
    curve is there but not steep.

    6. Get in the car and launch: When you get in the seat, you'll find it's
    fairly snug but not tight. My butt's about average and I'm a pretty big guy (215 pounds),
    but I had zero difficulty. Next came the 4-point seat belts. Yes - seat belts! They
    form an integral part of the very advanced feedback system to better "connect" you
    to the road surface and the car. They need to be snug, just like in a real car. This is
    how CXC accomplishes the sensation of acceleration and deceleration. along with all
    the other feedback your body receives We had
    but one small glitch - right before I was to drive, I realized the steering was out of
    whack. Chris apologized quickly - he had forgotten to calibrate the wheel at startup.
    No big deal - did a quick restart and calibration - and it was off to the races.

    7. Car 1 - Ferrari 288 GTO: (This car is NOT in the video). I chose this car
    in hopes of being somewhere in the range of the Ferrari 360 I'm most familiar with
    on the Monza track (in GTR2). I THOUGHT I knew Monza and an older Ferrari V8.
    Well, the Motion Pro II proved me wrong in a quarter mile! You feel EVERYTHING. It's
    almost surreal - you feel the dated suspension force under and over steer in the
    steering wheel, you feel the brakes grab too hard, you feel the lag in the accelerator
    on bad shifts, and something I didn't know - the 288 tries to redline if you don't lift
    during a shift. That took some getting used to!. As the laps wore on I did start to
    get better - higher speeds, fewer missed shifts. But all along the way, it was a VERY
    small leap of imagination to be in a real car on a real track. As Chris likes to say,
    "everything you touch or feel needs to SPEAK to you about the car and track".... and
    they've done such a thorough job that I have to fully agree - the steering, seatbelts,
    gas, brake, and clutch SPOKE to me - just like any real car does.

    My next car was the 2007 Ferrari 658 F1 - I've never experienced anything even close
    to this in a sim - ever. The rig I drove at CES in 2009 had the F1 car loaded, but all
    it really did was toss me about a lot. THIS car, however, is entirely different. Every
    nuance of the road can be felt, and I can honestly say I know what "too much wing"
    FEELS like on the grandstand straight at Monza! Yes, you can feel this stuff. You
    don't have to be a "real race driver" - it's simply physical feedback that your brain
    will register as if it were real. And again, the feedback in the wheel, gas and brakes
    was unlike I've ever felt - things like grip and brake fade had meaning to me when
    driving. As I was screaming around the track after the First Chicane into Lesmo 1,
    I remember yelling (this machine is LOUD!) "Oh my God - the grip is AMAZING" - I
    really wish there were words to describe it better. To actually perceive grip PHYSICALLY,
    in your body, not just intellectually in a game... CXC has managed it.

    8. Anders in the 914 While I don't want to say anything that's outside my
    own personal experience in this review, I just wanted to comment that my friend
    Anders owns a 914 so naturally wanted to try one here. He chose the original
    1922 Monza Autodrome high-bank oval. As a long-time 914 guy, he kept gushing
    about how the performance and physical feedback were IDENTICAL to his car. Especially
    the steering and suspension feel. Again, just 3rd party commentary but that's what he
    said - now back to my own impressions.

    9. Back to the company: Support? I wanted to know exactly how CXC reacts
    AFTER the sale and what, if any, failure issues are there. Well, to date - after 3 years
    of shipping simulators, they haven't had any! But if they did, there is a 1-year limited
    warranty (see attached documents), parts and labor. Software updates are free also
    for 1 year (the system comes with several race packages - GTR2, iRacing, etc. - see
    their web site for details). As far as the computer, they upgrade as the market upgrades.
    Right now they are shipping FAST Intel i7 computers with SSD so no moving parts in
    the hard drive; all running Windows 7-32. Setup is not considered DIY - but is included
    with every sale (less air fare). Operation is pretty hands off - any software tweaking
    is done remotely over the internet. They can also arrange just about any sort of
    custom software & hardware change - for example, running MS Flight Simulator X with
    the "car cockpit" for control input, later to be upgradeable for aircraft specific controls.

    10. What truly sets CXC apart: In my personal opinion, the single thing that
    sets CXC Simulations apart is FEEDBACK. This is accomplished by tons of custom
    code that has been written by CXC that intercepts the virtual telemetry coming from
    the racing software to then drive the myriad tactile feedback devices. NONE of the
    other guys do this - they use the standard stock USB code to drive "lose your lunch" hydraulics
    and such. Not CXC - this data is used to alter the feel of the steering (not just the
    "rumble" effect of Logitech, etc. consumer wheels) - adding resistance to the steering
    and the brakes and the gas and the clutch and the seat belts and the thrusters on
    the rear and the.... you get the idea. Again, EVERYTHING you touch in a CXC Motion
    Pro II SPEAKS to you - I can personally attest to this in every way.

    11. Any negatives? I've actually been giving that question a lot of thought
    since last week - I don't think ANY review can seem believable without SOMETHING
    negative. Nothing is perfect, right? Well, I hate to disappoint - but as far as the
    machine itself, at least in my 2 hour time - nothing appeared to me as a negative.
    I do think that CXC should offer a DIY installation option - perhaps with a disclaimer
    for damage and such - there are LOTS of technical folks out there whom I feel could set the
    system up themselves, resulting in a price reduction. But outside of this one issue,
    which could be argued is quite minor, that's all I could come up with in a week!

    12. In conclusion... is it worth the price?: Unequivocally YES. The model I
    tested was fully optioned at $51,250 (pricing document attached). Yep. That's a LOT
    of money. But the clinically accurate feedback systems CXC has developed make it
    so you can have virtually ANY car you ever wanted to drive on a track. If I were
    in the market for a simulator at this level, and having driven a few of them out there,
    I wouldn't hesitate to order up a CXC Simulations Motion Pro II.

    So there you have it folks. The first Ferrari Chat "hands on test drive" of the
    CXC Simulations Motion Pro II race simulator.

    All of the above are 100% my honest impressions - I VOLUNTEERED to write this
    review - wasn't asked or compensated. PM me if you have any questions at all.

    Attached: MP II Brochure, pricing, warranty and photo of the remote control

    Video: See link at the top – I didn’t want any of me in it – I didn’t drive the way I
    wanted to show in the video. So Chris is mostly at the wheel with my friend Anders
    in his 914


    Jedi
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Highlow

    Highlow F1 Veteran

    Dec 3, 2006
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    Tyler
    *Claps hands*

    Bravo! Bravo!
     
  3. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
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    Toe Knee
    Group buy discount!?!?

    Cool review :)
     
  4. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Nice review Jedi!

    I want to see a motorcycle simulator Chris! :)
     
  5. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2006
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    Flippin sweet. Do they have a simulation for the Top Gear track?
     
  6. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    Good question... Chris? Could that be arranged? Along with the "ordinary car"? :)


    Jedi
     
  7. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2009
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    Chris Considine
    Yes, we have the Top Gear track :)
     
  8. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    No ****? Do you have the car they use too? I'll be in LA again in December...
    Would LOVE to see my Top Gear time.... :D:D

    Jedi
     
  9. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2009
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    Chris Considine
    I assume you mean for the "Star in a Reasonably Priced Car"?

    They use a new car this year. Either way we don't have too many street cars. Not much call for them. Almost all race cars. It is a "racing simulator" :)
     
  10. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    Gotcha... same track though... :)

    Jedi
     
  11. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

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    Yes, same track. You can recreate many famous moments on the track though; everything from the Stigs Renault F1 test to various supercar tests like the Enzo or Veyron.
     
  12. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    I LIKE it!!! That will give me ideas for my December visit :D:D



    Jedi
     
  13. MaxPower

    MaxPower Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 28, 2006
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    awesome brudder ... awesome ......

    NOW my goose is cooked ...

    :eek: :eek:
     
  14. MaxPower

    MaxPower Two Time F1 World Champ

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    how many tracks do u have on board? can they be just added?
     
  15. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Get the times and see if you can beat Stiggy? Because that is what I would do :D
     
  16. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Andrew
    Awesome! I love the bit where you describe yelling out "The grip is amazing!" - that just shows how into the simulation you really were! :D

    Just a few general questions/ideas...
    1. Can you remotely link two CXC simulators to one another and race a friend?
    2. Can you put the simulator in a 'race mode' to compete against AI?
    3. If you do something that would damage a real car: i.e. over-rev the engine or stuff it into a barrier, then will the simulator mimic the predicted damage or are the cars immortal? That might be a nice option to be able to turn on and off.
    4. Jedi... speaking of crashing, did you crash at any point? :p
    5. Can you save lap-times in a sort of leader-board for simulator party competitions? It'd be good if you could get a small part of the screen to show the lap delta between the other competitors who have already driven as someone goes around - it'd put on a good show for the spectators behind the driver.
    6. Will someone loan me $51,250 in perpetuity? It's for a good cause. lol :D

    I hope I get to have a go on one of these one day. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  17. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    #17 Far Out, Sep 29, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
    That sounds really amazing.

    One slight "criticism" though: Judging from the photos, it seems to me that the actual simulation software is rFactor, right? So a big part of the driving experience (ie, the input to CXC's maginificient machine), the cars and the tracks, comes from a third party software. That does in no way diminish the fantastic piece of engineering Chris' and his crew have built, but should be mentioned IMHO.

    So, if someone has 50k for me now please ... :eek:


    If it really is rFactor, you can buy the software for your own computer at rfactor.net and download loads of cars and tracks at pages like rfactorcentral.com (for example, the mentioned Top Gear Test Track.
     
  18. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

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    Too many to count or list. So many in-fact that we pre-load as many as possible (hundreds) and customers simply make requests after that. We regularly install additional tracks and cars remotely for our customers.


    Yes, one of the software packages we use is rFactor. We pre-install many different simulation software packages to offer our clients a wide variety of content to choose from.

    BTW, we also use Momo steering wheels, Dupont Carbon Fiber, and Corbau Seats :)


    Yes. You can link up to 50 Motion Pro II's together.

    Yes

    Yes. Some of the software will even track flat spots and dirty tires.... Damage comes in many forms.

    Jedi? Never!! haha

    Yes. You can also have an external TV watch your race in TV view live for your guests to watch.
     
  19. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    That sounds fun. :D

    And so does that. :D

    :eek: Wow - that's attention to detail! :D

    Hehehe :)

    That would be very cool. :cool:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  20. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    unreal. very impressive.
     
  21. dozzina

    dozzina F1 Veteran
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    Very nice. What a cool toy. Maybe they should get it on Top Gear, have stiggy drive it wearing his suit and helmet.
     
  22. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    That would be funny!!
     
  23. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    +1

    How 'bout it Chris?..... Do you have any units in the UK? I'm sure they'd love to do that - Drop it into their studio for a few days (with a "guard" or they might blow it up or something!)

    Damn, Clarkson & the boys would probably buy one......

    It'd be really interesting so see a split screen of the virtual Enzo versus the real one for example......

    Having said that, I reckon that POS Chevy (?) they're using would be a *great* addition - You're not gonna get on TG, but you can pretend.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
    PS - Jedi, thanks for the review and the nice vid!
     
  24. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

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    I'm game. Set it up and I'll get two sims there!
     
  25. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Ian Anderson
    Cool!

    Me?!....

    I suspect they'd call me something like "not Mr Needham, but his Californian cousin!...."

    You could send 'em the invitation to;

    - come visit [I think one or the other of 'em is local to you pretty regularly] or;
    - Ship a couple over for the show. [They may want you to leave at least one behind, possibly for free - It would live in the studio.....]

    Cheers,
    Ian
    PS - I will write to 'em if you like!....
     

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