Has anyone done a successful Ignition system conversion with Haltech system? Any feedback?
Last time I used a haltech system was '07-'08.. fiddly and difficult. Electromotive was next up and worked great, but as time went on the USB interface was needed over rs232 as laptops stopped having that interface. Enter Link. I'd imagine haltech has improved and shouldn't be overly difficult to use. By far though it's the harness fabrication for PITA regardless of the EFI system chosen.
I have the Electromotive system which seems to work, but the manufacture seems to have gone dark with no support. I am looking to Haltech or Mega Squirt as the next option.
Electromotive really shined early in the EFI game when most everything was still 8 bit with low clock speeds. They locked in on the 60-2 trigger wheel so the code could be optimized around it. They also had a really clever way of handling fuel table look-ups that used a simple function and the table was the coefficient so even if the rpm changed fast the ECU still had a decent approximation of the right fuel value. Back around the late 90s they were pretty much the best....but time marched on and they really didn't and what was once clever became not worth the bother as the need for it was gone and it just made tuning harder. MS is designed to be cheap. Period. Its come a long way and lots of people used it but its still based on a 16 bit processor so its much slower than other option and it memory constrained. They have gotten pretty clever at managing the memory and it works fine for most applications and its cheap so its popular. If you are talking ignition control only I'm sure its fine unless you are trying to control a 2 distributor setup, I think you'd need 2 units for that but haven't looked in a while. Haltech is a 32 bit processor these days and quite capable. I was just playing with their software a couple months ago to help a buddy with some setup issue he was having..its good. Nice big fuel tables and a lot of CAN expansion stuff to work with modern cars so maybe overkill for just spark but they are well made and well supported which is nice. Haltech was popular in 308 land going way back because it did have a 2 distributor setup option, I think it still does but haven't looked recently. Another option you might want to look at is https://rusefi.com/forum/index.php Its open source so cheaper than MS and uses a pretty fast and common 32 bit ARM processor. This kind of flips ecu design around a bit in the traditionally the chip have a bunch of dedicated times build in but clock speeds are so fast now compared to 30 years ago when the dedicated timers were truly required so they just use the 1 (or 2?) timers the ARM chip has and made and ecu with 1up to 2 fuel and 12 spark channel that use all the free opensource development tools. Its pretty nice and would be my personal choice for a lower cost solution....but like all opensource things its not as plug and play as a commercial production like haltech so a little more learning curve to get it setup. For just cheap cheap https://speeduino.com/home/ might be worth a look. Similar idea to ruseEFI but with a less capable and less expensive processor. I see them out in world. Its 4 spark outputs so you'd need to run waste spark which is not the end of the world, its what I run on the frankenferrari and had on the QV blower engines with no issues. One more low cost option is https://shop.vems.hu/catalog/assembled-controller-p-48.html It will do direct fire spark on 8 cyl. It started out years ago as a split from MS so I assume there are similarities but my understanding is that its generally better quality. Hope this helps
MK E, so let's focus a bit on this question. If all we are looking for is strong, reliable, spark for a 3.2 CIS engine, would a Haltech conversion serve the purpose? Their 4 Cyl model can handle a V8 with wasted spark configuration.
I can't say much aside from going full-tilt, but I have one vehicle on a Haltech 2500 and another on the Haltech Nexus R5, and the current Haltech systems are truly incredible. If you are converting over to a full standalone system, you can't go wrong with a Haltech. The level of control, the options, the peripherals, it's all top tier.
Thanks for the info. I inherited the system with the car and would love to have an updated ECU and fuel delivery system. The car ran rough at 6000 rpm, but I think it was mainly the wiring and setup. I am rebuilding the entire engine electronics and fuel delivery system to see if that resolves the issue, but want a Plan B if that falls through. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Absolutely it would a reliable option. They are nice units and the tuning software is pretty friendly. What you need though is a decent trigger setup. The stock dual digiplex setup uses 2 pins on the flywheel them each digiplex has its own trigger, and they are mounted 90 degrees apart so 4 trigger signals per revolution and that is ok...more is better but the 4 work. If you just hook 1 sensors to your new ecu then you only have 2 pulses per rev and that is not ok. For sure if you switch the 2 bosch reluctor sensors to hall sensors you could wire them together and get same 4 pulses the factory setup uses, you just need a couple adapters which are pretty easy to make. You might be able to wire the reluctor sensors together but I've never tried but maybe worth testing before going the adapter route. I've also converted 3 or 4 flywheels to a 36-1 pattern by adding more pins then you just use 1 of the original bosch sensors and that works very well. The electromotive required you to install a 60-2 wheel and most put that on the damper end but that is kind of ugly IMO but it works fine so you could do a 36-1 or 60-2 on the front.
Maybe but if it right around 6k and nowhere else its likely something with the tune. Do you have the software and a laptop that will connect?...that has casue me to replace a couple old ECUs....the old software and serial connector that no pc has any more
Tech 3r sensors get noisy above 6k.. real noisy. In the past I've fixed that with pull up resistors for the trigger sensor. Shielding is also critical as the common front mount is too close to the alternator. On a build with the Ti conrods and light flywheel.. The Delta V was too much for electromotive... That was my push for something else.
Yeah .....free reving is a real issue on the older design ECUs. That is the real issue with only 4 pulses on the trigger.....36 or more is ideal
Not sure if I have the software. As I recall it had to run on a XP PC, and maybe the latest version would run on Win 7, but that was only for the latest ECU. I believe my Win 7 laptop has a serial port.
Getting connected seems like step 1...a programable ecu you can't program is a paperweight. They make various serial port adapters, I used 1 to connect to an older haltech some year back but recall it was hit or mis on the brand....this brand worked, that one didn't kind of thing. You can do a emulation window...vmware might have the window version you need then you rung the old software in the emulator....never tried it with tuning software but it might work.
Circling back to this, the haltech is the controller but you still need coils. The haltach (or most any other ECU) can trigger the factory coil(s) feeding the distributor, you just need an ignitor for each coil you use. So that gives you a pretty stock look. I'm using 12 GM D585 coils which have the ignitor built in and throw a crazy hot spark. These use plug wires so again can look pretty stock. I have mine kind of hidden on the fire wall but did a couple V8 setups with the coils over the bellhousing which was also pretty neat (but I have a BIG exhaust pie there now). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Can you show me a picture of the modification done to the flywheel to add more pins? How are you adding a Cam Reset signal detection to the system, as needed for the Haltech?
I don't think I still have a pic of the pins....the last time I did one was 12 or 15 years ago. But on the back of the flywheel there are 2 pins the factory installed 180 degrees apart. You just use that as the start of the pattern and drill/ream 33 holes and tap in 33 more pins to make a 36-1 pattern, which is a pattern of 36 equal spaces (10 degrees) with 1 pin left out, so 36-1. The missing pin tells the ECU where #1 TDC is, any pin can be missing and you enter the offset angle for #1 TDC in the ECU setup info so as long as you have 35 pins it should work just fine. It takes a couple hours to setup on the mill and do so expect to pay $200-$300 to get a shop to do it for you. A cam signal is not needed for waste spark or distributor ignition. If you want direct fire (8 coils, 8 signals) then you need to add a cam sensor. I've done that a few different ways over the years. Most people like bolt-on (so bolt off) setups which means making a little housing to go on the end of the cam. The easiest is way is just leave the distributor in place and make the housing to replace the distributor cap with a hole in the side to hold a hall type sensor and inside you make a piece to replace the rotor with a steel bit or magnet for the sensor to read. This can be pinned or set screwed to the cam so it stays put. I've never tried but I'm kind of wondering if these bit could just be 3D printed...I've used alum for the cover and steel for the rotor thing and that I know works fine. In theory you could drill a hole in an old distributor cap and use that as the cover. I don't think there is any alignment requirement to the missing tooth on the flywheel....with newer ECUs you just tell the ECU where you put it in the setup info, but older stuff was a little more particular.
This thread shows a Haltech conversion if I recall. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/3-4-qv-crowndogs-adventure.386363/
What do these ignition systems actually DO that provides any functional improvement over the stock system on an unmodified engine?
