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Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by Texas Forever, Dec 16, 2019.
And the market is silly.
Wether we think it was silly that the La Ferrari was valued as high as it was previously (I do) and wether we think it's silly that the market for them has dropped by 22% (I don't), the market is the market and it defines value.
Mr Sackey, you are a merchant and you care about the market and all; fair enough. I too was a merchant (different sector) and I do understand where you are coming from. The fact of the matter remains that market values do not represent the actual engineering value of a motorcar. Now we have collectors, traders, buyers and sellers and what dictates the value is scarcity and age. If the market consisted of engineers and racing drivers I would care about it a lot more... they would know a thing or two about cars, unlike most collectors who drive prices up and down.
I'll take that as a compliment
Seriously though, I do understand where you are coming also, sometimes it seems to makes no sense, but it is what it is.
The dollar value of a "thing" is defined, quite simply, by what someone is willing to pay for it. Doesn't matter what the profession of the buyer may be, and it doesn't matter if a few experts on the sidelines happen to think that the "thing" is over-valued, or under-valued. Buyers (aka "the market") ... who may want to buy for a wide variety of reasons ... determine the market value.
The market isn't silly. But equating engineering value to market value certainly is.
I wonder how much the canvas and paint on the Mona Lisa cost?
The difference is that cars are meant to be driven; that's their litmus test and engineering is what matters.
The supercar golden age has come and gone. It was from around 2007-2016 IMO. It was a great an exciting time to be into exotics. It's now passed. People are older, different stuff matters, the younger generation hasn't really replaced the last generation, performance has become meaningless, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times have kind of peaked in real world usability. You're seeing relatively modern exotics in places you never would have before because they've pumped out so many and they are longer lasting/reliable/maintainable.
Sure, cars are still selling, but it's just not what it used to be. Just a bunch of YT content creators pumping out lame videos ad nauseam. It's not at all surprising that modern collector cars are now dropping in value from nose bleed levels.
I find this approach pessimistic. For example, I haven't met anyone who isn't excited about the Valkyrie. Sales are growing for all makers.
This quote belongs in the FChat Hall of Fame
Add the F50 and would be the trifecta!
Sent from my 16M
Yeah, but that's one car, it's like $3M, and it's seemingly the only car anyone gets excited about. All the standard models come and go with little chatter anymore. Even Bugatti is having to constantly pump out body kits and SE Chirons just to keep people interested.
Sales are going up for all, but they're going to different types of people nowadays IMO. Unless exotics start getting scrapped, every new exotic produced dilutes the niche. In the last 10-12 years, production of exotics has soared and as such they aren't as rare/special and that will continue to happen. And on top of that, the plateau in performance and reliability means every new one sticks around even longer. F458 is 10+ years old, but it still seems a heck of a lot more fresh than a 355 did in 2005 when the F430 showed up.
The excitement in the space is far from what it once was. Constantly new cars coming, no time to be attached to any of them because new ones are right around the corner.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the Corvette now creating a mass-market car that includes one of the hallmark features of exotics: rear-mid.
To me exotics are becoming more and more like mass market luxury goods and the depreciation is going to get worse and worse as the niche gets further diluted.
so will you actually buy a ferrari soon?
still worth more than 918 + p1 combined
Valkyrie is probably the only car I've been excited about in years, for me personally the golden has aged as passed but it's hard to be objective about it as nostalgia is involved
in terms of real world usability, we are not at the point yet where manufacturers are focusing on this - the reality is still every new model has to be quicker and more powerful than the last
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, thus I respect yours but I disagree. I don't think that the speciality of these cars is being diminished by the wider range. Bugatti is not a good example, their cars are one trick ponies and they have failed to capture many enthusiasts hearts and fascination. Corvette you say? This must be a jioke, right? They are great cars, but they are basic 911 territory.
This seems to be the problem. I don't have an all times favourite car, my preference shifts with every new model. I am all for the latest and greatest. Currently my dream car is the LaFerrari, but I am sure that its successor will become my new dream car.
Joke? There was a time and place that the Corvette was the second fastest car to ever lap the Nurburg ring. The new ZR1 lapped VIR faster then any other production car ever made.
how is that relevant on this forum? id rather have no cars than own a corvette instead of a ferrari.
If performance matters, the latest ZR1 is right up there with the best of them ... comparable to any production car, at any price.
If performance-per-dollar is important, the latest ZR1 stands well above all its competition.
(just wait until the high-output, high-performance versions of the C8 arrive )
But alas ... if fashion and prestige are the deciding factors, you'll have to look elsewhere.
I believe the battery warranty is covered for a longer period of time than the standard factory warranty. I will try to get confirmation on that.
Porsche gave 7 years warranty on the 918 battery (or at least in Europe they did)
Concur w/REALZEUS earlier take on the market being silly. Because from a dynamic/engineering perspective - the Ferrari should be cheaper, or Corvette more expensive?
a ferrari is always worth more than another brand, simply because its a ferrari
I had to google what this even was. I guess we've never met.
I think the ubiquity of supercar content is diminishing the supercar mystique. Seeing an F40 back in the day involved buying a magazine or going to an autoshow. Now I can go online get over 1000 videos of the LaFerrari, know where one was just spotted near me, go look at it. I can talk to LaFerrari owners directly, and have them talk to me right back, etc...
Performance matters and the ZR1 is a beast, just not as divine as some make it to be. I am talking about independent tests, not factory claims (the Ring... ---> LOL!!!)
A Nordic Goddess, don't bother with such specialised knowledge.
You are just referring to a lack of information and communication. I was really disappointed the first time I saw an F40 up close...