Grand Am And ALMS To Merge According To Speed

good call.

maybe Montreal too?

even with all the duplicate tracks between the two series (both race at Laguna Seca, Lime Rock, Mid-O and Road America) I see no reason why there can't be a 15-20 race series.

 

not sure why they went with the 12 race idea....bidding up the offers from tracks/promoters? working with the TV contracts?

even with a month break for LeMans (assuming the cars are eligible), starting with Rolex 24 in January they could do five or six races before LeMans and eight or so after it. heck, IndyCar can get 4 races before the month of May, and one of them is on a different continent!

 

Nah ! Conti is far too expense from the way the cars are built to tires more suited in GT. !

I mean 100% stock REGULAR production stuff a SAFE yet limited cage , not a psedo GT car. And yeah real street tire , just like is sold at the tire store .............. except with Vilven shaving them , once again

 

I just ran across this on the net , to give a look at the cost to race at the top in ALMS & Grand Am.

by Marshall Pruett

With inflation factored in, how does the cost of a 1993 Ferrari 333 SP compare to today’s leading customer prototypes?

After flipping through an old issue of On Track magazine from 1993 and rediscovering a write-up on the brand-new Ferrari 333 SP World Sports Car, a glance at the original price tag on Maranello’s last prototype racecar made my eyes water.

Listed at $995,000, the 333, complete with its de-tuned 4.0-liter V-12 Formula One engine stuffed into the Dallara-built chassis, cost an absolute fortune at a time when the global economy soft.

Despite the financial realities facing most of the world, plenty of 333s were sold and raced in a variety of championships, but nearly 20 years on, and still reeling from the sticker shock, I wondered how the shrieking Ferrari was faring on the second-hand market.

Sure, it’s a Ferrari, and Ferraris tend to hold–if not increase–in value, but what about one of its over-priced racecars?

Turns out you can purchase at least one of the final 333s produced for $995,000, the exact sum the original models sold for, which led me to call around to a few friends in the American Le Mans Series and GRAND-AM paddocks to ask how much a strain today’s leading prototypes place on the wallet.

Nothing could top the 333’s princely sum, right?


Starting with the ALMS, and focusing on a like-for-like comparison between 1993 and 2012, make sure you have $2.5 million sitting in your bank account before handing over your ATM card to purchase Honda Performance Development’s ARX-03a.

The 03a, with its 3.4-liter naturally-aspirated HPD V8, hasclaimed five LMP1 wins from seven ALMS races held so far this year and comes with trackside support and multiple engines supplied through an annual lease arrangement.

On the domestic front, running a 03a in the 10-round ALMS championship hovers in the $4-5 million range. If you’re keen taking your 03a to run the FIA’s jet-setting World Endurance Championship–with the 24 Hours of Le Mans serving as the cornerstone event on the eight-round calendar, one 03a team is reportedly spending $7.5 million to field its HPD this season.


Looking to 2012’s other class-winning ALMS P1 car, the Lola B12/66 powered by a 2.0-liter turbocharged Mazda MZR-R engine, it can be purchased for something in the $1.1 million region, and that includes complete ownership. Depending on how much testing is undertaken, engine rebuilds could add another $250,000 to the bill. With Lola having recently gone into receivership, access to spare parts has become a concern, but multiple parties are trying to keep the legendary racing car constructor from closing for good.

The Lola-Mazda package is said to cost in the region of $3.5 million to run each year.

Looking across to GRAND-AM, Riley Technologies has maintained a firm grasp on Daytona Prototype championships and vehicle sales, and its new-for-2012 chassis and body kit, including electronics and spares to last a season, costs approximately $750,000.

Add roughly $300,000 per year for an engine lease (BMW and Ford are popular options) and another $25,000 for trackside engine support, and you’re in the ballpark of a P1 Lola-Mazda.

GRAND-AM’s 13-race schedule will cost a quality DP team between $2.8-3 million per year.


Circling back to where we started, where would the cost of a Ferrari 333 SP rank among the ARX-03a, B12/66-Mazda and a Riley-BMW/Ford?

With inflation factored in, its $995,000 becomes $1.57 million in 2012 dollars, placing ahead of the Lola and Riley, but almost $1 millionbehind the HPD.

Makes you wonder how much the ARX-03a will go for on the second-hand market 19 years from now and whether it will holds its original$2.5 million price tag…

 

^^^ I saw that article the other day (I'm a HUGE 333SP fan).

interesting thing to me is that a DP and the Lola/Mazda are roughly the same cost to buy and campaign, despite the DP being significantly lower tech, and slower (DP and PC are roughly the same speed, and the PC is 1.5mm or so to run for the full ALMS season).

why is the DP so freakin' expensive, relatively?

 

3 more races and one of those bring twice the time of the ALMS longest? I too was suprised at the DP cost , maight be in the schedule and miles done , no time to compare them right now , but it's amazing what travel is , especially if crisscrossing the country a few times and not just making a west coast swing and save miles.

 

the purchase cost of $750k vs $1.1mm is what surprised me.

yes the GA schedule does include more events and more total running time (mainly b/c of the Rolex 24, as you say) but still for such a relatively simple/low tech car I would have guessed it would be much cheaper to run, both per event and total season.

and yes, travel is ridiculously expensive for a racing team.

 

Not a bad idea!

 

they already do that....ALMS supports Indy at Long Beach, Mid Ohio and Baltimore; GA supports Indy at Detroit and Barber.

 

Another factor that must be included on the DP
side, especially in the early days perhaps not so much
now, is cost to rebuild after a car is written
off three or four times per year.

BHW

 

Inevitable.

NASCAR did not have to "buy" into the ALMS to kill it. ALMS would have faded away in the next 2-3 years due to lack of manufacturer interest.

Hopefully NASCAR can see they have the ability to create a series that was like the old IMSA Camel GT. Possibly they see they have an opportunity to attract an entirely new fan base to their regular NASCAR program which has lost viewership in the last few years.

And NASCAR has more ability to draw domestic manufacturers than did ALMS. A little pressure on Chevrolet, Ford, and we might see a new TransAM. I never thought GrandAM would survive all of these years with those ugly cars, but they have, and now they control the future of sports car racing in North America.

Interesting times for sure.

From Autosport.com today:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102250

 

Another "new" Trans Am type muscle car series based on production bodies/floorpans/engines would be great. This could be run as a class in ALMS/GA or as a support race. Keep them as close to the 1960's concept as possible.

Grand Am also survived because the owners were willing to take a lose and have no fan support for years. NASCAR support will not be helped by this merger. Sportscar guys want NASCAR to die(That will never happen, yet). If you ask a fan at an ALMS race what they think of NASCAR they will probably throw up on you!! ALMS fans are already well aware of NASCAR.


Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2013-Chicago March 2013

 

I think that's ridiculous.

I'm a huge ALMS fan, and a NASCAR fan....and F1...and IndyCars....and, well you get the point.

I like racing in all its forms. I don't think I'm the only one. I also don't understand why each sanctioning body wants to "claim" a certain group or demographic as theirs to the exclusion of all other series....which is part of the reason we ended up with 2 open wheel series and 2 sports car series in this country.

 

I think you are wrong. In general sportscar and ALMS fans do not care for NASCAR. There are a few people who will watch anything as long as its racing.


EDIT:

Just go to the comments section on the ALMS site and other sportscar websites(Excluding the Grand Am backed sites). You will see very negative comments and worries about this merger and dislike of NASCAR in general.

 

don't you think maybe that's just the "vocal minority"?

 

NO

 

well we disagree again, everyone I know even remotely involved in sports car racing sees this "merger" as a) good for the sport long term and b) inevitable.

 

A Grand Am DP is quicker than the ALMS spec PC I think.

 

I did not say the merger was bad. What I said is that ALMS and sportscar fans are worried about it. ALMS fans knew something had to change. This might be the only way it could work. Stop trying to turn this into a fight with me. This is the general view of many ALMS fans around the country. They don't like NASCAR and are worried NASCAR will screw up sportscar racing. I reserve judgement and hope they don't.
By the way, I like your comments and you seem like a very devoted race fan. I just don't agree with you on the NASCAR comment. I know alot of people who tried to be NASCAR fans, and got bored with it. The NASCAR cars really are pathetic technically and ALMS fans know it.

Here is what I think will happen:

DP will become non tube frame cheaper Americanized LMP1/2 style cars with maybe 2 classes again someday..DP and DP light
GT will stay almost the same. The main reason for the series!!!!! Hope this merger will get all the major marques to look at the series and this great class.
GT cars based on Euro class/GA GT and ALMS GTC cars will be brought in below that. This could be the class that brings in alot of smaller European teams if done correctly. JIM G please talk to them!!
Tube frame GT cars will also be added, sort of like the Trans Am cars nobody liked.(GTO/GTU IMSA style hopefully with 2 classes)

 

Sadly they are not.

Mid-Ohio DP pole 1:18:079

Mid-Ohio LMPC pole 1:15:107, LMP1 Pole 1:11:019

That's not even close - the new series would be insane to give the middle finger to ACO spec LMP cars in order to prop up DP's. It doesn't speak well of the DP's when they are clipped by 3 second around Mid-Ohio by a spec chassis/crate motor PC car.

Judging from the press conference which gave no specifics as to the direction of the new A.S.S, it seems as though this transaction was more of a churn & burn takeover than a proper merger. Who knows?

 

the dp's are actually slower than the last gto and ta cars! they are spec racers and have no place in any real stage prototype event. this will be a real problem and ultimately be where the wheels come off...

 

Wow didnt realize that. Thanks for the info

 

Just to put the DP's into perspective:

2012 Mid-Ohio DP Pole 1:18.079

2012 Mid-Ohio BMW M3 GTE Pole 1:19.298

If the A.S.S. welcomes GTE's & keeps DP as the top class I think a mandatory new reg cutting spark to at least one cylinder of GTE's will need to implemented.