Gordon Murray's T50 | Page 11 | FerrariChat

Gordon Murray's T50

Discussion in 'British' started by Igor Ound, Jun 5, 2019.

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  1. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    Says they should have a 'runner' in a month or so. :)


    .
     
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  2. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Both enginers and marketing are to blame. Modern Maclkrens are engineers cars, an obsession with the objective at the expese of the subjective. Marketers, they love paper spec cause it sells.

    The really great cars built by and for drivers. Lotus Elise and Alpine A110 cant make stand alone money because their price/ volume are not high enough, although each sells in the thousands to driving enthusiasts..

    Higher up the price scale you can make superlative cars, cost no object. In period though the F1 only sold 100 or so copies, and I think the T50 is a similar number.
    Only so many coniseurs out there with $. Most supercars are sold on being brash and raw numbers, not driving enjoyment.

    It is an inetresting question though. What if Murry turned his genius and ehtos to a 300k car manufactired by a volume company so the costs and profits were workable. What would that car be like and how many woudl sell. I know I would be a buyer. But such a car would need to sell what 1000 per year for a few years.
    The boards would be full of people saying a corvette zora is "faster" So marketers don't take the chance,a nd engineers chase numbers uber alles.

    Yur F40 comment though does indiacte its worth doing. the F40 is the child of the 288. In period Ferrari had to make 250 288's for group B homoglation. They actualy didnt think there would be that many buyers possible Yet customers demanded they make more. Then they did the F40 as a follow on tot he formula and limited production to 1500 which sold out. Sadly ferrai has not made anything similar since and your Laferrai owner wouldt buy a F40 today, and certainly not unless it had the ferrari badge investment on it.
    Renault took the risk more recently with the A110, a car as expensive as a more luxury bigger boxter. The A110 is sold out and at I think 2500 per year.
    Murry has a cachet to his name. he as always been about minimalism drivers cars. How to convince him to make one the rest of us might buy, even if it has less "performance" than a T50 but it just as much fun to drive.

    NA 400hp 2200lbs has a nice ring to it..
     
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  3. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    I agree completely, and the Lotus in the US is a great example. Probably the purest sportscar ever sold here (I had a 20007 Exige and it was magical; I have a buddy with an Elise and you can hardly pry him out of it).
    But only genuine drivers will tolerate it, and those that can afford more exotica go elsewhere.
    If you took the V6 Exige as sold in the UK and replaced the engine with a NA 3L V12 that was light and revvy, would there be anything else on the planet as fun to drive? The engine doesn't have to be cutting edge, just fun and vocal. Unassisted steering, light and stiff, open top, mid-engine, manual shift, and a V12?
    Which part of that recipe is wrong?
     
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  4. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I have a v6 exige cup as a track car. You would be surprised how smooth and revy that supercharged Toyota v6 is. Quicker and smoother than the flat 12 in the BBI and with headers it’s screams. Very different to the rough and torque challenged 4 cyl in the other exige and Elise.

    Heat soak and iats are the issue with the v6 on track, this winter doing water methanol injection to cure that and maintain power. Not elegant but it works and sounds great.

    when the car was delivered maybe I imagined putting a few hundred road miles on it early am for a few days to get it bedded in.
    As you say really raw for the road and possibly too much go. It felt like a super bike if you opened it up, just reall way more than you need. On track down straights it could use more go but off corners it already has too much and way more than the tires can absorb. Great car to Find balance beyween the throttle and wheel

    I drove a maclaren 570gt4 on Track And while it has more go the electronics wouldn”t let the power overwhelm it anywhere. It was not so much you driving and balancing with the throttle or finding the limit, it was all the electronics. So much so that off a corner you could just flatten the pedal and aim. Seemed like the only way you could go wrong was by going into a corner too fast, the nannies are that effective: I can see how this works to win races but as a driver it was less fun Or challenging than the 200 hp na Elise I had there that day.

    yes something like an v6 exige with a. Really smooth 4-500 hp v12 sounds like the ticket. Was hoping the Maserati mc20 was going to be something like that, alas not.

    sometimes I think the radical v8 motor in an Elise is the way to go.

    also drove a Alfa 4c on track, it was surfing my good. That car with the new Alfa v6 a stick and wishbone suspension would be the ticket.
     
  5. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    ^^^That's good stuff. I thought about buying my friend's Exige Cup car as a track car but we both got Elan DP-02s and went racing with IMSA. He sold his, I never will. On track, there is no substitute for a high-downforce open cockpit car.
    This guy is building a small high-revving V8 similar to the radical motor: https://www.rscproject415.com/ The guy that ran our race team is his driver/engineer.
    You are in CT so you can't be far from SCG. Their new car appears to tick all of the right boxes and it's at least approachable for a financial mortal.

    https://glickenhausracing.com/scg-004
     
  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Looked it over at the track a few weeks ago, still 500k. What really I impressed was his boot . A cross between everything that’s cool about a Meyers Manx a lm002 and a jet boat.
     

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  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Here’s the exige
     

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  8. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    The gray one is scg? Actual version to buy?
    lotus looks awesome btw
     
  9. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    SWEET
    FANCY
    MOSES
    !!!
     
  10. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  11. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #261 boxerman, Dec 13, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
    Yep thats the SCG oo4, the track only version.
    5-600k a bargain if you're comparing it to a senna, an arguably a better choice than a a ferrari challenge car. Probably way way less to run than a Gt3 cup car or a challenge car and sinbificatly quicker. If I were going to spend that type of $$$ SCG probbaly the way to go, its a car you can tow yourself to the track and happily run all day.

    Or one could get a cyaman Gt4 clubsport for 200k and work your way up to be a way better driver towards a scg004..

    I guess it all depends on what your current level is and growth potential.

    I dont know what (track) level the road legal scg 004 is at, probably way higher than a Gt3 or F8.

    The lotus is quicker than a regular Gt4, but not up to the level of Gt4 clubsport on slicks or a really track only done to the 9's Cayman with a 3.8 suspension big wings aero etc at 250k..

    With some $ (30K)the lotus can be amped up to 550 hp or more, bigger blower intercooler etc, one can add more serious aero (5-10K), and loose more weight (5k). Currently at 2300lbs wet with gas, full cage 2 seats and plumbed fire system. One can maybe loose another 100-150lbs, the first 50 is easy, course the driver losing 20 is less $ still.. But if one is going to spend another 50k on the car, might as well just get a clubsport except I already own the lotus and it will be less less to run. One has to drive at that 550hp 2200lbs aero level in the first place esp as the lotus does not have nanies to do it all for you.
    Next summer with water meth injection the car should be around a consistent 400+hp and 300-320 ftlbs. Summer after that ill do some more aero, and then maybe shorter rations on 4-6. Plenty for me.

    Even as is it can run flat from turn 1 at the Glen theough the esses 4th gear and down the straight 5th gear at the bridge, so grip is there, but it does feel a littlle light crossing the seam between 2 and 3, no cayman or road Gt3rs seems to do that pace through there as in if I look back after the bridge theres a bigger gap than we had going into 1.

    The car now is still real easy to load on an open trailer without mega ramps etc. Everyhting is a compromise somewhere.
     
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  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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  13. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    deman motors in ny makes cayman with 4.5 liter 550 hp gt3 engine swaps and full track prep. not crazy prices either if start with used base cayman
     
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  14. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  15. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    lol
     
  16. Jonathan19

    Jonathan19 Formula 3
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    BTW, does anyone have any details about the unveiling of the T.50 s Track Speed? I know it's due this month and there will be a new name but no information on the exact date.
     
  17. FF4X4

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    Where did you see this, please.
     
  18. Jonathan19

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    Gordon Murray confirmed that at caranddriver.com I think.
     
  19. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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  20. Jonathan19

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    www.caranddriver.com/news/amp33916076/gordon-murray-t50-track-car-details/

    "One thing that is still missing is the new car’s final title: T.50S is just internal code. We're promised a "historically significant official name" when the finished car is shown later this year. In the spirit of Enzo and Senna, how about the Gordon?"
     
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  21. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the links, besides Fchat I dont do "social media" or whatever the various tendrills of great big brother web is called these days.

    The Boot gets my vote as the seminal SCG vehicle to date.
    Given the budget Id take an o04 with the mercury racing SB4 motor.
     
  22. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    S for Silverstone
     
  23. Jonathan19

    Jonathan19 Formula 3
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    Are you sure?
     
  24. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    nope, just guessing
     
  25. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Making me miss my old 211

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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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