Glickenhaus' SCGs

I can't tell what is in Jim's mind but I think he believes LDM ruined Ferrari setting them on the path they are on today -- and that he is trying to prove them wrong since.

You have to admire his tenacity and talent. Will it make money? Maybe that's not the point.

 

Well enzo at his greatest wasnt makign money either, hence the sale to Fiat.
What was greatw as seeing Jim at the track, involved in the running of his cars. Ill also say that the photos of the cars (003) dont do them justice,

 

He is working with an excellent team of designers and Jim, by himself, has probably a better one man's view of what he wants. To me, its a bit too derivative of past Ferrari designs (aka glory) but its still very attractive.

Its better than McLaren IMO

 

003 is more lemans car prototype, what the FGt would be if it could go that much further.
004 is i agree more derivative, but then good design is good design.

i think for 004 which are street cars primarily Jim is looking for more classical beautiful forms as opposed to simply arresting design which so many moderns seem to do, his p3/4 compared to a stock enzo. All his cars should have great performance not least because he is also focussed on weight and a surefeit of things like electric seats, he is also very focused on the viceral tactile driving experience. As such I think he is going to give us somehting more akin to a Maclren F1 drive experience as opposed to the latest techno wonders.

In may ways these are the types of cars we often lament ferrari does not build.

My understading is pricewise 004 will be in the more affordable super exoitic range, more aventador than pagani.

 

According to comments made by SCG on social media, the 004S will have a LT4 for the base model and LT5 optional. Also they are targeting 50 Boots production for 2020 and 100 for 2021, which is ambitious but exciting!

 

LT4 - 6.2 L; 376.0 cu in., 1.7L supercharger, 650 hp @ 6400 rpm / 650 lb⋅ft (used in Corvette Z06)
LT5 - 6.2 L; 376.0 cu in., 2.3L supercharger, 755 hp @ 6400 rpm / 715 lb⋅ft (used in Corvette ZR1)
Cooling both these motors can be a challenge.

I don't know if this motor (6400 rpm) fits the cars exotic image. Seems like it will invite comparisons to a Chevy Corvette Zr1 rather than a Ferrari 488 Pista.
A faster (much lighter), better handling (comes with less weight) ZR1 for $5-$600k? Or a real rival to the Pista?

 

The cooling problems were with the C7 Z06 not the ZR1, this is due to the car's design rather than the engines ability to cool itself. I agree, the engine is not as exotic as the TTV8 in the Pista, but I look at it from the longevity/relatability aspect and even if you have problems with it, the ability to fix the engine/the cost would be so much less than an exotic engine

 

Well, at least he didn't go with a Ford EcoBoost V6

 

Big names:
Porsche 911 GT3 R
Audi R8 LMS Ultra
BMW M6 GT3
All full spec FIA race cars
Prices 400-450k euro and much much less when buying the road spec cars.
Who makes the carbon “tub”? The well known racing car manufacturer Dallara? HP Composites? ATR? (Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo)

A Corvette ZO6 with LT4 engine is 80,000 usd??

How about the built quality?
Servicing?
Spare parts supply?
Warranty?

Is a 004S with corvette engine a bit expensive at 460.000+??

Wasn’t it first a non specified 5.0 litre twin turbo V8 (BMW??), then a Nismo V6, then a Chevrolet or will it get a Ford engine, a Toyota or a Maserati V8?

The road spec scg003s has the BMW engine(?)

 

Porsche and Ferrari don’t make cars with carbon tubs in this segment, the 5.0 V8 you’re referring to was suppose to be the NA version of Koenigsegg’s V8, same one that was suppose to be supplied to Spyker.

Yes the 004S is expensive with having only a chevy V8 in it rather than something exotic but you have to remember this is a ‘start-up’ car company and they are limiting production.

BMW, Audi and Porsche have the ability to have ‘unique’ engines cause they are part of a group brand that share parts and engines. Porsche’s flat six is in all their 911’s or a derivative of it, The R8’s V10 is shared with Lambo and their V8 was shared with previous gen RS Audis, BMW’s V8 is in all their M cars and for a while they supplied them to Wiesmann and Morgan.

You are comparing apples to oranges, those big groups can eat the cost of developing unique engines because of volume, low production manufactures cannot.


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Although simple in design comparatively I wouldn’t call the LT4 and LT5 engines non exotic. They are pretty remarkable in their own right and as American as you can get.

The carbon stuff will all be done at Fast Forward Composites in Rhode Island. Check them out and see what they do. Racing sailboats . Domestic again.

 

Still 460.000+ is a huge amount for a “start-up” car, but he is making cars since 2010(?)
Why not a judd, gibson, menard? ; a bespoke one in stead of a stock chevy V8

We all know what happened with Spyker, Gumpert, Vector and Cizeta.

For 460k you can buy a new LMP3 with a carbon tub and have change for a nice Porsche Cayman.

And if you care a bit for resale, it is better to buy a Porsche 911 GT3 RS or GT2RS
One can even buy a racing Ferrari 458GT3 and convert for road use.

Nice to have a “new” car on the road but to me the price and what you get is not fair imho

 

Pagani used a Mercedes AMG V12 when they started (and still do), Koenigsegg used a Ford V8, even Bugatti used a variation two VW V8s stuck together and Aston has used a V12 based on a Ford V6 and now they’re using V8 from AMG.

Manufactures have to do that to lower production costs. Think of it this way, for a limited production run and a totally bespoke engine, they’d have to go to Cosworth and like, like Aston did for the Valkyrie and Singer for the DLS. Those cars are way above a million dollars and I’d argue $250k for just the engines. Development and regulation costs for engines are extreme unless you’re going to use them for thousands of engines or charge a million plus per car.

I do agree they should’ve had a more unique engine for the 003S, not sure what made them think of BMW’s V8


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Oops SCG did not make cars like p45c, scg003c and s...MAT did together with the guys from Podium Engineering; both Italy.

 

Isn’t the P45C based on a 430 Scuderia/430 GT3? Not sure but yeah the 003S/C is made by the same firm (Manifattura Automobili Torino) that is making the new Stratos. Not sure where/who will make the 004S


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2.4M usd for a scg003s??
I think I can buy a Pagani with a bespoke racing AMG engine in it or a hypercar from Ferrari or Lamborghini.
Who would not be interested in the resale value of his car.
Throw your money in the bin or get a good price for your “occasion”

 

Yes. 430 scuderia

Carbon tubs for Porsche, Audi LMP1, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Peugeot LMP1, Toyota LMP1 and many others are made in Italy by specialist carbon manufacturers of fame in the racing industry, Dallara, Ycom, ATR, CP, HWA and HP
None use a boat builder! (With respect to a good carbon championship/ocean race boat manufacturer!)

 

Anyome know about Mast Motorsport crate engines? Hand built in Texas? They have some meannnnn LS based engines. Some up to 700hp NA on an LS7 block. That’s impressive.

I think the issue is emissions rather than costs of a more hand built setup.

https://www.mastmotorsports.com/

 

SCG 004S Motor1 article (nothing new)
https://www.motor1.com/news/273629/scg-004s-final-form-video/?fbclid=IwAR3gDbrmC1YzJhweDr1_MeolEZRkz8qV0fcUVkqlGvWAkDldkjLiQN7fUeY

 

Do the new laws that SCG will become a small manufacturer of 325 cars or less allowing them certain exemptions only apply to replica cars? If so what are SCG003 and SCG004 and the other 2 actually replicas of? This can't be the case surely????

See here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Volume_Motor_Vehicle_Manufacturers_Act_of_2015?fbclid=IwAR3RAFf2l_QxqFjYG8GngYhKhmL3gVVtVR3NGY4K79px05FXZ6oZz4SaOPs

 

You may not be wrong, but Wikipedia is not the best place to look up legislation.

 

https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/hr2675/BILLS-114hr2675ih.pdf

I see enough loopholes for good lawyers to argue SCG's case.

 

See here: https://www.powerperformancenews.com/news/replica-car-manufacturers-customers-and-suppliers-praise-new-law/

Exactly what loopholes do you see?

What replica vehicles made at least 25 years ago are the SCG cars based on?

Is the 750 BHP version of the BMW 4.4 Twin Turbo V8 engine in SCG003 Stradale emissions compliant?

 

The wording of the law does not make it 100% conditional that the so called Low Volume Manufacturer must produce a replica car in order to be described as such. There are openings there which make it possible for you to produce a run of 350 or less vehicles in a year regardless of them being replias or not. The fact that Jim has at least 2 of his cars registered in NY State makes me think the lawyers have had their look, and argued the case. Apparently the "secretary" has approved of them, too, as they do have license plates.

There's a very good lawyer in this very forum interested in purchasin at least one of the cars offered by SCG, unfortunately he won't participate in this thread because you're in it. Hopefully other lawyers around here could give us a better expert look.

Regardless, if you're as worried about the safety of potential drivers of these cars as you seem to be, I suggest you file an official complaint with the authorities in the US, as regular courts there might be more effective in doing something about it than the court of public opinion.

 

Too late to edit but my above question should read: What vehicles made at least 25 years ago are the SCG cars based on to be classed as replicas, if indeed they do need to be replicas?