How often/how many miles do you change gearbox oil on F430/F360?
I agree. I do all fluids annually. For what it costs, it's peace of mind. Don't forget to do the coolant too and keep the oil-water heat exchanger healthy!
Why??? I understand the logic for motor oil... as the oil absorbs combustion contamiants, water, etc... But why gearbox oil? It doesn't "go bad." New cars now a days have lifetime gearbox fluids. Now, that may be extreme, but then so is changing it annually! Thats just wasteful... Bo
Right Tell that to the owners of all the 360 and 550 transmissions I have had to rebuild. Very, very poor advice.
Can I get some enlightenment as to "why" changing the trans oil every 5 years causes "carnage"? If you drive a car 500-1000 miles per year, how does that "ruin" the tranny oil? If someone drives 15,000 miles in a year... is that any different than someone doing 3000 miles a year for 5 years? I really don't understand the science of it, and would love to hear the reason... How is it different from other high performance cars? Or any other car? How does the oil go "bad" sitting in the trans? Keep in mind this is a different topic from leaving trashed fluid in your car. If you burned the crap out of your trans, abused it, and grind into every gear... then yes, change the oil often. If you just drive like a sane person... then perhaps not? Not trying to stir the pot, since you guys know your stuff. But explain to me WHY? The PO of my testarossa drove 12,000 miles in 25 years. Yet, changed the trans fluid yearly... Trying to understand the logic of that... How worn exactly is the lube after 400 miles?! Bo
Bo --- There are 3 main things that degrade oil / lubricants. 1) Thermal cycling 2) Contamination 3) Mechanical stresses 1 & 2 are the primary contributors for the degradation of motor oil (in an internal combustion engine) 3 is the primary contributor for the degradation of gearbox oil. The repeated high pressure "crushing and stretching" that occurs to oil as it strongly compressed in between the contact surfaces of mating gear teeth / surfaces and then sheared (torn) as it is squeezed out from the tight clearances actually degrades (destroys) the vital mechanical properties of the oil which are required for providing good lubrication ability. So, it does "breakdown" over time. When (how long it will take) is a function of the gearbox design, its service usage, and the oil being used --- but it will happen eventually. The Engineers (manufacturers) of the gearbox are the ones who set the "oil life estimation" and the appropriate change interval --- it is a mistake to not heed their recommendation for any specific gearbox / application. If Ferrari says "change it every 5,000 miles" (for example)...... then one best do that. Otherwise, excessive and premature wear and damage to the gearbox and its components will result.
David, I agree fully. Gearbox oil is degraded due to usage. That makes sense. So, why change annually on cars that are hardly driven...
The only reason I can think of to change the gearbox oil on a "time-only based" interval would be that some oils used have certain chemistries and/or additives in them that are subject to degradation from environmental exposure --- typically moisture. Some gearboxes / circulation circuit systems are fully closed (sealed from the environment), and some are open (vented to the environment). So, if a particular car has a system that is both open and utilizes an oil formulation that has a moisture susceptible chemistry, that would obviously be a valid reason to require changing it on a time only basis. I do not know whether this applies to the specific Ferrari models that are being discussed here or not ---- but, it certainly is a possibility. And, of course, the authority for that specification would be the recommendation which comes from Ferrari (whatever it is).
Like I said before, annual gearbox and coolant changes on these cars will ensure that the oil-water heat exchanger stays healthy and if any failure of that part begins you might catch it in time before HUGE repair bills become part of your experience as you will see the signs in the old fluid as it is removed. You want to save $300/year on fluid changes, be my guest. Just get your cheque book warmed up. These cars need preventive maintenance because they DONT get used. Time for all to understand.
You guys aren't paying attention. There are enough examples of coolant/gearbox cross-contamination to justify annual fluid changes. There is no other practical means to assure that each fluid is still where it belongs. Most cars since the 355 are subject to the problem.
If you really only drive 400 miles a year naturally you can reevaluate your service needs but if you are driving the average many Ferrari transmissions destroy their oil because it gets so hot. Real life experience among the professionals here has shown that. I wouldn't expect a DIY guy to know that but I also wouldn't expect him to offer advice and be argumentative with so little relevant experience. Then for the 400 mile a year guy his biggest enemy is condensation in the oil. I have had to replace entire transmissions for them due to rust. There goes that experience thing again. Coming on here and just pronouncing that an annual change is wasteful is just ignorant and very bad advice.
Helpful, thanks... Do you think the condensation issue was due to your location close to the ocean? Not trying to offer advice, or be argumentative. I am trying to understand the logic of it. Bo
It only happens anywhere there's air... Don't worry... Why continue man? There's no more info to get. Reality, data, and experience have created and supported the logic since the first engine/gb inspection. Then again, keep poking the bear. It's fun to read.
The answer gets into chemistry. Here's a decent article that covers this. Articles | Mixing Oil and Water: A Recipe for Downtime! | ReliabilityWeb.com: A Culture of Reliability
It is worse for sure in any humid environment. I suppose it is of no real concern in the Mountains of New Mexico. Once again it is one of those things that needs to be adjusted for the use and environment. There is no one size fits all service schedule.
Well, those exchanges might have ruffled a few feathers but it was interesting for many of us! So thanks are due.
You do realize that the chemical attraction of Iron (Fe) to Oxygen (O2) is strong enough to disassociate water (H2O) into Hydrogen (2H) and Oxygen (O) allowing Iron Oxide FE-O to form even in a complete vacuum; do you not? Not that the interior of a transmission is a complete vacuum, but the assumption that the corrosion is from the Oxygen in air (O2) is completely unwarranted.
I just change the gearbox oil in my 430 at 15,000 miles, two weeks ago. From what we could tell it had never been touched. I purchased the car with no service records in August 2014. There was very little metal on the drain plug magnet, but there was a surprising amount of silicone on the screen filter. I plan on changing the gearbox fluid again at 20,000 miles. My mentors have said it many times: "Cheap insurance"!
