Permatex Ultra Black or the Permatex high temp red stuff for my oil and gearbox pans? Those are what I have in my drawer. So unless someone has a GOOD reason that I should use something else, one of those is what I'm using.
Hondabond is another good brand that I use and had good results. I've used it on valve covers, oil pan, end caps, water pump, and gear box pan. I never had one drop of fluid and it doesn't have the vinegar odor.
Throw silicone gasket makers in the trash where they belong for everything but your bathtub! Use Permatex ultimate gray motoseal. It is the same as Hondabond, Yamabond, etc and is what most current car/motorcycle manufacturers use. It is solvent-based, not silicone based and won't cause the squeeze-out that silicone does... http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/specialty_gasket_maker/MotoSeal_1_Ultimate_Gasket_Maker_Grey.htm
Dammit, you guys are going to make me go the store now, aren't you. I'm sure I'll have PLENTY of time. I've already spent an hour messing with these fracking quad seals. I'm wondering if they're more trouble than their worth. I foresee hours and hours of bloody knuckle sailor cussing fun in my future with these stupid things.
Good Luck, I am still trying to decide what to use. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138990624#post138990624 I tried some hylomar on my WP thermostat housing which is very small and had a hard time applying it, as it set up so fast I could not even get a even layer. This made me rethink about using it on a large gasket. I have some honda bond and may try that on my valve covers as that is what I am really concerned with because after using 3 bond I had no leaks but removing them was very, very, hard. Rob
My issue with silicone is not really that it's a bad product - even if you can figure out which one(s) of the myriad types to use - but it's badly used by many people who use it and it's easy to badly use. I have seen heat exchangers, radiators, oil passages, etc. totlly gunked up with silicone squeeze-out. I have witnessed MECHANICS observe that seeing that squeeze-out on the outside of the assembly shows there will be no leaks. They wipe off that unsightly cr@p and somehow fail to figure out that the same squeeze-out that's on the outside is also on the inside. And there's nobody inside the assembly to wipe it off! The solvent based sealants, like the Permatex I mentioned, Yamabond, Hondabond, etc are much thinner and cannot be applied as heavily so they automatically can't cause the problem. Much of the issue occurs because silicone is applied much too heavily instead of just a thin smear. Sometimes this is done because the mating surfaces are uneven - very common with valve covers that have been overtightened. So the silicone is slathered in there to compensate instead of truing the surface. This slathering seems to have become normal to "ensure there are no leaks." That part works fine but where does all that squeeze-out go? Hey who cares, the car's out of the shop! It's a tool of the devil!
Bingo. While a tall bead on the valley ends of an American V8 is "de rigueur" for sealing the intake manifold... thats about the only place I'd recommend using anything in bulk. Otherwise I always apply it to my fingers first then do a light smear on the surfaces being joined. If a light smear won't work you need to address fitment issues first. I'll add one more to the list... and it actually just got better. In areas that are in constant contact with oil (ie: bottom two cover plates on our motors) we only use one thing on the race motors now... Ford Ultra Grey sealant for diesel oil pans (they don't even use a gasket, just this stuff). Its got just a bit more body than MotoSeal (which I really like and use too) and a lot more "tack". It used to only be available in short load caulking gun tubes... which is great if you are going to use the whole thing but meant for small jobs the tube was nearly impossible to reseal and would go bad before you could use it all up. Well, they listened to the "gear heads" and now produce it in a toothpaste style tube as well. Makes intermittent bench use much more feasible and economical. They stock it under part number TA-29 Rick
Finding 3Bond is getting harder and harder... in stores. Mail order is still an option. But your comment about "no leaks" outweighs very, very hard to remove in my book every time. I hate leaks... says the man prepping a Lotus Cortina for the English Ford gathering at Laguna Seca next month (sorry, I refuse to call it Mazda Raceway) Rick
Black is fine, but very thin...just enough to stick onto both sides of the gasket...no goop-iness. Apply, install with nuts finger tight, wait an hour (avoid beer!), then torque nuts to about 10 ft-lb. Be sure to clean flange areas with acetone or alcohol until very dry before installing. Hondabond is fine too.
I may use the honda bond but put some grease or something on the head. I spent close to 100 hours ( 4 weekends+) removing and cleaning my surface areas, something I may not be able to repeat as I get older. I want to try the hylomar but not sure i can get an even enough bead down
Ditto what Mike and Rick said. Exactly right. Many an engine has gone kaput because of silicone/RTV type sealants squeezing out the inside of a mating surface and the blob(s) finding its way down an oil passage and lodging. I'll add one more to the list: Permatx Form-a-Gasket. Will make a great seal, help stop the gaskets walking all over the place, and can be removed fairly cleanly on the next removal. I just put it on the side which comes away from the block/head/mounting with (typically) the other side dry. Makes for fairly easy removal next replacement and it's easy to clean up the surface of the part removed when it's sitting on your bench. Good luck! Image Unavailable, Please Login
With the toque spec for a 6.0x1.00mm fastener being 6.5 lb-ft (0.9 kg-m), you're pushing your luck by bringing them down to 10 lb-ft. Perhaps this advice was well received by others in the past, as I just completed installing 12 Heli-coil in a 308QV, as the threads were pulled... Surface prep ensure minimal leakage, not excessive torque. It takes very little to distort the oil pans around the bolt holes...
Thanks for this input! I was unable to find the specs and used estimated torque for freeing the nuts on mine. Since I replaced all the studs in my 328 sumps, I was satisfied with the 10 ft-lb. So, 6.5 ft-lb is the torque to use. Just do periodic inspection for leaks. So, Future, listen to this one!
Well, crap. Now I can't remember what I used. Seems like the 6.5 number was in my head from previous discussions with you on this, David. I do have the stat-o-seals and wave washers on there though. Thanks for that tip. I'll check the torque again tonight.
Hey Future, did you take any pics of any shift-shaft seal replacement methods that could be done without removing the engine oil pan? This would be excellent infor for simple replacement efforts. Rob H.
Even the service bulletins don't show the cover nut torques. But, they do show the torque on the camshaft cap nuts at 6.5. Its the same nut, stud, substrata combination as the covers so I think you are pretty solid with 6.5 ft/lbs. Just for future reference... Stat-O-Seals from Parker are not the correct product for this application. Stat-O-Seals are for sealing bolt heads. Parker makes a nut seal application; they are called Thread-Seal. http://www.industrialseal.com/CompositeSeals-Thread-Seals-Parker.html Rick
True, this is not the perfect application here, but...I have had no luck in find them in the metric sizes we need. Also, by putting washer between the seal and the nut, in essence, you've solved the inherent design problem with the sealing washer. With nearly 600 of these washers installed on many F-cars through the years, they do work, presuming that the pans are not warped.
HELL NO. I would not even have attempted that. I could see how you could do the outside seal without removing the oil pan pretty easily, but the inside one? Not this DIYer. I'll give props to Brian for being able to do that. With those seals oiled up, they are slippery suckers. Trying to squeeze them into the small hole on the gearbox side...I'd end up dropping it into the oil pan for sure.
Ok, next time I get in there, I'll remove both pans and develop the method showing from inside both sumps. If anyone else is doing this, take off both ans, and try to install OEM seals without going into the oil pan (evn though it's open); if successful, please take pics. I'm hoping not to see shift shaft leaks for a few years.
