Future Dino/Sports Car Trend | FerrariChat

Future Dino/Sports Car Trend

Discussion in '206/246' started by 4CamGT, Aug 11, 2020.

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  1. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,649
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    I had an interesting phone conversation with Tom Shaughnessy yesterday. We talked generally about enthusiast automotive trends. He said the only upward real movement in vintage Ferraris is with Dinos. We talked about how younger enthusiasts are aspiring to BMW 2002tii’s, Alfa GTV’s (ie Alfaholics), early 911’s, 356’s, Speedsters, JDM, Stratos and Dinos etc! The market seems to be moving away from less usable classics. With Instagram and social media being huge we even see established older collectors driving (and being seen) in their older Porsches much much more than a vintage Bugatti which seems to be more static art. Cars+Coffees are the new car show rather than a concours. Online BaT style auctions not traditional auction houses. The world is reinventing/redefining itself as we speak to be relevant. Collectors are divesting themselves of the cars that aren’t usable (or fun) on tours or drives.

    The other day I saw five grassroots classics following each other through the canyons. They were having a blast. What does all this mean? I think the enthusiast hobby is alive and well but shifting to a more Petrolicious audience. I see Dinos, early 911’s etc getting more desirable, relevant and popular not less. What does this mean for Dinos? I could imagine prices going up since the word is getting out and how usable and fun they are. More parts availability to keep one on the road are available today than in many years due to Dino Parts, Superformance, Brandoli etc. I have a ‘72 911S Coupe with my ‘72 246 GT Dino Coupe. They’re both equally fun in different ways. I can see why they were contemporaries of each other and compared to each other. I also see the 246GT Dino as really undervalued when compared to a Carrera RS. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a nice non F/C Dino in the $650K to $750K range as time goes on. The body design is pure emotion. Not much comes close.

    Freeman
     
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  2. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
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    This is an article my good friend and ex-colleague John Clinard wrote for European Car in 1996. He since has had a ‘72 Dino 246GT Coupe with a Group 4 Stratos Spec motor and a ‘70 911S Coupe! Still relevant!

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  3. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    Freeman, don’t you think just sheer numbers argue against much upward movement in air cooled 911s? I’m speaking in general, excluding special highly collectible models or preservation cars, which aren’t going to be in the useable classic group anyway. Sooner or later it would seem the sheer numbers would have to catch up with demand. And if Dinos do eventually achieve the value levels you mention I just don’t see many enthusiasts taking them out to do battle with autonomous vehicles and worsening road conditions.....their 2002s or GTVs, probably.
     
  4. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    Freeman,

    These are interesting thoughts.

    Not saying this confirms in anyway, but Harry Styles has been driving around in a yellow GTS.

    I have had more questions about my Dino from younger friends recently and several weeks ago, my nine year old daughter ( who never really seemed to notice what was in the garage), figured out it was same car he had. Suddenly, it is the talk of all of her friends. I have probably shown the Dino to more kids under 18 in the last weeks than I have in the last 10 years (ignoring car show stuff).

    I have no idea what “Watermelon Sugar” means, but even though he has been around for a while, he is bringing attention to the Dino, and other cars, he is driving.

    There is no doubt, this type of exposure, especially considering how social media amplifies things, will introduce older cars to younger people who otherwise wouldn’t be looking for such things.

    Shawn
     
  5. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
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    #5 4CamGT, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
    There are more events dedicated to air-cooled Porsches now than ever before! The good cars are selling fast and are finding a younger audience. Builders like Emory have a 2 to 3 year waiting list (go to their open house and most are young and design centric) and scouring to find core cars. There are more Cars+Coffee’s even in this pandemic. Dinos are in the dream category for most enthusiasts. My point is, even with EV’s and autonomy on the future horizon (we’re still way far away from real autonomous driving), there’s a desire and passion that seems to have found a new place for real driver’s cars. Instagram, Petrolicious, Luftgekühlt, etc etc weren’t around only a few years ago. There’s a new type of enthusiast that is also very design and fashion conscious. I’m am also observing the early resurgence of ‘70’s pop-culture with a younger audience in design, in furniture, fashion, lifestyle, TV/Movies and cars. This will fuel the desire to own and experience cars from that era. The reception of the new Bronco has been a huge surprise for Ford. It isn’t hybrid, EV or autonomous! The Jeep Wrangler is still hugely popular and successful doing a good job of being one of the big profit makers for FCA. What does this say? If Ferrari brought back a true Dino, I think they’d be surprised at it’s reception! The industry business model has always been about “meeting unmet needs”.

    There are about 3 or 4 “driver” quality Dinos on EBay right now just below $300K. A friend just sold a nice but not perfect 356 Speedster to a young hip guy (35) for around $360K. To me, the Dino seems undervalued and much more special than what the prices dictate. We’re living in truly the golden age of these cars and the fact that there are great cars/experiences in every price category. You can still buy a TR6 for under $20K, a GTV for under $40K (if you look hard!) and many cool driver’s cars from the 70’s and 80’s for cheap! The new enthusiast is looking for a somewhat more modern, safer and reliable car that they can use but still be a car that represents their passion and lifestyle. Remember the saying, “A house is who you are, a car is who you want to be!”

    Freeman
     
  6. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    I’m not questioning the popularity...or the appeal (see my profile)...of the air cooled 911, but simply the upper limits of values. I don’t have the same reservations about the Dino, at all. If anything I think they will accelerate.

    I’ve owned many 911s, but never a Dino. Excluding monetary considerations, if you could keep only one.....
     
  7. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    I agree and feel Dino's are undervalued to not only early Porsche's of the same era, but also relative to other Ferraris. As the owner of 3, a 69 L Series, 72 GTS and 74 C&F's, Dino's evoke a certain emotion not found with other cars and are universal in their appeal. I've thought for awhile that 206's would be $1 mill cars some day and lead the way. A couple of years ago, I think at Gooding at Pebble a 206 hammered around $750,000. With buyers fee, all in was above $800k, getting there. I know the market has pulled back some, but there are not a lot of high quality cars available right now.
     
  8. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
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    :confused: Just what we need. Yet another endless/pointless thread about value perceptions of old cars...
     
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  9. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
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    Ken, this is a great time to buy these cars! I just bought a ‘72S “side-fill” Coupé in Viper Green a couple of months ago! I absolutely love this car!
    Truly a car that defines a category like the Dino!

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  10. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    where are the headrests on the green 911?
     
  11. kjw9028

    kjw9028 Karting
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    Beautiful car, one of my favorite colors! The sport seats in houndstooth are really cool as well. I agree, there are a number of great cars that have come down from their highs and can be bought more reasonably. I had a couple of soft windows, a 67 911s, Bahama yellow and a 68 912, Bali blue. Fabulous cars!! Too much fun to drive! In older Porsches now, I only have a 64 356c Cab in Sky blue. It was owned by the Rahal family for 20 years and I purchased it from them. Super fun to drive. There is something about the mid 60's to mid 70's European sport cars, nothing else is like them. Not only the driving experience but the way they look as well.
     
  12. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
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    It’s Italian Spec. For the Italian market (and some other European countries) headrests, exterior mirror(s), seatbelts, warning flashers were an option and not required by law. Seatbelt mounts were installed at the factory so not a problem to add seatbelts. Italian taxes were high so many customers ordered their cars with minimal options and added them. Italian Spec Dinos were similar (Except they came with headrests!). Now Porsche charge more for “delete” options!

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  13. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    Ken, thank you and congratulations on having had some great Porsches and a great color 356C Cab. My friend’s wife has one that’s identical (w/a tan brown interior). She uses it as a daily driver with her Bernese Mountain Dog! I love 60’s/70’s sports cars and sports sedans. Still some great bargain fun out there with real motors that make great sounds with a clutch and a back seat in some cases! Who talked us into not wanting to shift?
     
  14. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    freeman
    looks like a fresh restoration. nice.
     
  15. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    #16 4CamGT, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
    Thanks, it’s in driver original condition. Photographs well!
     
  16. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    First rule of Italian driving.....

     
  17. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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  18. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
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  19. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    Well said.
    The King of Toasted Ponies does know his market and he is on top of it so I do believe the Irishman.

    The again, that isn't really a big reveal to any Dino owner - we all know how hard core Dino owners can be. :)
    Dino ownership is rife with long term owners with artistic appreciative backgrounds such as Gunther Raupp or yourself - people who see much more in a Dino than a car to drive fast or flip for big profit.
    We see character ... our Dinos are infectious and endearing
    Scott
     
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  20. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
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    "We see character ... our Dinos are infectious and endearing"
    I agree 100%. Although, I am fortunate enough to own other cars, everytime I drive my Dino I wonder why I own anything else.
     
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  21. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    I had a very interesting conversation with a well known person last week.

    This person deals in vintage cars, all makes, and is known to lots, but not as a Ferrari specific Dealer.

    He said that Dino’s have become his MOST requested car in the last couple of months. This is from non-Ferrari buyers.

    The Dino is the car they want to check off a box.

    Even more interesting in the conversation was what followed....

    He said he deals with a conversation that ends with “As long as my wife approves” as a condition of the agreement. He has not not lost any Dino sale on this angle.

    From his buyers perspective, the Dino is a fun car but also the best buy, in terms of vintage Ferrari, and why they are buying.

    This is a no BS situation. He has multiple cars going through the process of purchase to delivery. Everything he is working is sold and never hit a public market.

    If I did not know the specific serial numbers transacting, I would not believe the COVID world we live in.

    These are real Dino’s transacting...... Very Strange Times that we all are trying to figure out.

    Shawn
     
  22. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Possibly because they dont trust banks as far as you could throw them, zero interest on your money, potential tax grabs & perhaps its a desirable car and is bound to go up in value.
    If you think about it, there isnt really a Ferrari that is more iconic than the Dino 206 / 246, unless you have loads of £$ to buy the blue chip cars and out of reach to mortals
    Tony
     
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  23. Neelfryer

    Neelfryer Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2017
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    Freeman

    I love your take and share your optimism about the dino market.

    I am a good example of a long time car lover - who grew up from meager means and bought a 66 mustang 6 cylinder as my first car in 1986.

    Now as an adult - I own a '74 246 GTS and a '71 911 S Targa (but the Porsche lives in my living room as folk art)

    When I drive the Dino on Sunset ... it seems all the younger guys track me like sharks in Lambos and newer Ferraris

    People have deep fascination for the Dino

    The Porsche 911 maintained its basic look for 50 years or so

    The Dino was a moment in time ... I literally can't stop looking at it

    And I have never been a "Ferrari" guy

    I still own some muscle cars - that's where the big piece of car knowledge lives

    lastly - I've seen the 4 or 5 Dinos that have been banging around on e-bay and hemmings

    I can make a case for buying each of them but - that said ... the Dinos are tucked away it seems ...
     
  24. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
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    john truskowski
    I really don't know too many people under the age of 18 that know how to drive a stick shift. They look at them like I look at a Stanley Steemer.
     
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