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Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by allanlambo, Jan 24, 2004.
I caught that too (the 'soul' comment)
I think it's probably the engine sound that makes people say that. If they could get that little sucker to even sound close to a Tubi-ed 328, let alone a 355 w/Tubi, then I'm sure 80% of the comments would disappear.
The other 20% of comments could be handled by changing the Honda Accord interior to something more edgy, leathery and minimalist.
Have you heard the NSX with the tubi? Sounds really great.
Remember the NSX was developed with Input from Ayrton Senna, so it must have at least some soul and heritage.
As long as it was for more than the color choices!
Netviper - any links onhand to a vid or soundbyte?
I had a Na2. The interior is stitched leather EVERYWHERE. Much nicer then an accord. Much nicer then most Ferrari's....but hey whatever....Personally, I like my 328s....
Agree with sparta49.
I've done a few track events with Chin Motorsports, a Florida NSX group. Very nice guys who are genuine gear heads. And, the car is very, very well engineered. As far as lack of "soul" or racing pedigree, the same can be said about most sports cars, Lamborghini included. However, that certainly wouldn't keep me from considering an NSX, especially for a nice track car.
No Soul? No Heritage? Hrmmm. While it might not be a Ferrari, you can't deny that either one of these is completely false. But first I'll state that you might not see any soul in comparison to the Ferrari for the mere fact that Honda sells cars for everyone. Not just high priced sports cars. So the exclusivity is nil, even on the production line.
A quote from the old board here from ilya kandibur (1badnsx):
The next item would be the attachment. It shows a little bit of the ties between Senna and the NSX. That would probably be as much of a tie in the car as Schumi would have in the Enzo. Which would be some fine tuning but other than that, I doubt either of them were in design meetings.
Honda's NSX Shows why Aryton was the Greatest
A master at work in an NSX
Regardless of what you might think - it does have heritage. Lots of things have heritage, but people fail to recognize it. Even Honda himself has ties with Ferrari. And why? He built cars so he could fund a racing team. He saw that passion from Enzo and he wanted to compete on that level. No, not compete in selling cars, but only in racing. Has he done it? Yeup. Has he been successful at it? Yeup. You really cannot deny that part of it, just because they also sell Accords and Civics starting around $14K - and for that reason, is why I believe the people that say it has no heritage or soul, lacks both with the car.
enzomoon - Wei-Shen is a truely nice guy. I haven't been to any of his events, but he flew out for our national S2000 meet back in October. We had a great time, and I've seen him at other events in the nation.
Schatten, you just ow3d alot of people.
Thanks, but I don't feel like I did at all. Just expressing my opinions backed with a few facts.
Others will still have their opinions, and whatever is stated above, will least likely change any of them. But for them to be aware of a bit of history in Honda's racing carreer, however brief it might be, and inputs on the dated-10+year-old-flagship from Honda from Aryton, it might help shape the general thoughts on Honda as a whole.
He owned a few people about heritage. Honda certainly has a racing heritage, that's obvious to anyone with knowledge of historical F1.
He did NOT own the rest of the group that when talking about how an NSX has "no soul" really mean that it's a less exciting car to drive than a typical F-car or Lambo.
Go re-read my posts, I've already laid it all out for you.
The 360 is fun the first time I drove it. I was totally excited. I was the same way when I first drove the NSX. I would imagine driving the 360 would become routine just like driving the NSX. Not as exciting anymore, but still wonderful. Maybe Ferrari owners feel differently because they cannot drive their cars daily - for whatever reason. If you only drive a car once every 2 weeks, it will stay exciting a lot longer.
Personally, I think putting on a louder aftermarket exhaust ads a lot of "SOUL". The stock NSX exhaust is too quiet.
Top Gear did a review on the countach not long ago. It was a guys dream car and he finally drove it. It was a major let down. I would imagine the majority of ferraris under a 360 or 512 would be a let down for me compared to a NSX. I would still like to try as many as possible of course and have my own opinons.
I seem to remember Honda kicking Ferrari's ass inside and out in F1 until they pulled out. And when I had my NSX, anytime a Ferrari Club member (I was in FCA) gave me crap (jokingly) about my 'Japanese' car, I'd remind them of that little fact - and they'd shut up real quick.
348 may be a beautiful car (and I think so too) but so is the NSX. And every magazine reviewer when comparing the two always gave the nod to the NSX. Sometimes by a wide margin.
Incorrect, this is a myth perpetuated by the NSX community.
Rose colored glasses about the wonderful reviews that 91 NSXs got upon their arrival have distorted the truth in this case, Road and Track directly compared an NSX and a 348 in a 1991 special issue and concluded that the NSX was slightly faster and better at the daily grind, but given a price no object choice they'd pick the 348 for sportscar duty.
Here's the final quote, word for word:
"Has Honda bettered Ferrari? Even ignoring their price differances, virtually every driver who spent time behind their wheels felt the NSX would be the better choce as a sports car to live with. Its advantages in comfort, outward vision, ergonomics and lighter control effort are that significant. However, all of these drivers also agreed that the Ferrari would be their pick for the sheer fun of a Sunday morning's dash down a favorite mountain or backroad. Let's say the 348 is the better exotic, while the NSX is the more successful car."
You can take that to mean what you want, but I take it to mean that if you need a daily driver, the NSX is your car. But if you want to be emotionally moved by a sportscar in the ways that are most important, the Ferrari is the clear choice.
Yeah.. but nobody at Road and Track can afford the repairs on a 348. When spending their OWN money, I would bet their purchase may lean towards the NSX - regardless of when they would drive it.
My NSX is emotionally moving. Isn't yours? If not, it will be once you add the supercharger. At that point, you can race 360's without a lot of trouble. I bet that will be emotionally satisfying.
No one disputes that the NSX is no Ferrari for that 'excitement' but the bottom line with practically every review comparing the two (and this isn't rose colored glasses) is the NSX outperforms the 348 in practically every way.
(just a few I dug up last night)
Motor Trend : "Also, the NSX, like the Ferrari, a mid-engine design, produces near identical performance while being, unlike the Ferrari, comfortable to drive slow and easier to drive fast (With significant steady-state understeer, the Ferrari is docile eight-tenths but charge an onramp using a race-pace lower gear and crowd the gas on the exit and that push instantaneously transforms to big oversteer). Also unlike the Ferrari, the NSX' spoiler doesn't drag on everything taller than a Botts dots, it's shifter doesn't demand a big bicep, and you don't have to rest your chin on the steering wheel hub to read the speedometer. And it costs half as much."
Car and Driver March '93: "The 348tb has some faster and more sophisticated contenders nipping at - perhaps taking chunks out of - its heels and at far lower prices. Of course there is s big difference: cars like the Viper, the NSX, and the ZR-1 can easily keep up with teh 348, but none of them has a first name spelled F-E-R-R-A-R-I"
Csaba Csere (follow up): "...despite the Ferrari's ability to shed rubber as readily as a venal singer sheds clothes, it can't compete with an NSX any more than Madonna's singing can match Linda Ronstadts."
Even your own quote basically says the same thing - is the NSX exotic, probably not. But it's far better of a car than the 348. It handles better, it drives better, it out performs the 348. The NSX may not have the 'excitement' (define your version of excitement - looks or getting your first repair bill), but it is the better performing car, something every magazine has hammered home.
Lastly, Honda beating Ferrari's ass in F1 is not 'rose colored' glasses either but a pure fact. Honda won repeatedly, Ferrari did not. End of story.
Maybe your fingers starting typing your note before your brain computed my post, but you need to go read it again.
Ok, now see the part where it says the NSX was faster than the 348?
Yeah. That pretty much nullified the need for you to post a reply since you added nothing to convince me what I already know: the NSX is on par or faster than early 348s.
But the point is, it's not about speed son, or this board would be called "ViperChat.com".
It's about the feeling of the car. The NSX could have 500HP, and it wouldn't be as entertaining to drive as a 360 CS.
THAT's the point.
And I personally own a '99 NA2 NSX and have put a deposit down on a Stradale after driving one if it helps you see where I'm coming from. It's not even a comparison.
And by the way, I never disputed Honda's F1 history, but by the same token Honda never managed to work their corporate finances well enough to afford running an entire F1 team in the modern era and basking in the glory that goes with it.
Designing a successful F1 engine is one thing, taking a start-to-finish team to the Championship is quite another. Just ask Toyota.
I serioiusly doubt that, but why don't you visit Gerry and FactorX and see if your opinion still holds true.
Can someone explain to me what a "ricer" is and where the term comes from...? Thanks...
It's a rascist term referring to Japanese cars usually. It has become acceptable lately I've noticed. I believe it comes from the fact that Japanese people eat rice.
nsx vs 348 is simply a matter of taste.
my business partner had 3 nsx in the 90's and was happy with their reliability, comfort, etc. i drove each one and they did not provide the exotic experience i was looking for when i got my 348 spider. nsx styling, clutch, shift, steering, brakes all felt like any of a generic number of nice 1990's sports cars. the ferrari with knock out looks, manual steering, ripped velvet sound, etc is simply unique and just happened to be what i was looking for as opposed to my partner.
now a more idifficult comparo is a modified nsx with body kit, supercharger, wheels/tires/brakes, suspension vs a 355. id probably stay with ferrari but choice would be harder than stock nsx vs 348 spider.
i believe the term "rice" came from the harley's guys who saw their bikes being blown away by the japanese sports bikes, and call "rice rockets". "Rice" then trickled dowm to include japanese imports and cars with tasteless bodykits and massive wings for the looks..and yes the japanese people eat rice as well as other asians.
Rudy, unfortunately i knew that; i've brought this up before and everytime i see it, i like to throw sh_t at the wall just to see what sticks... i hate the term and think it's off-color and i wish people would be a little more open-minded before spewing whatever terminology society feeds them, but then again, wishes don't always come true...
As far as ugly body kits and massive wings and that whole thing, well... Everyone likes something; who are we to judge others merely because our tastes differ...?
A quote from the old board here from ilya kandibur (1badnsx):
Please remember that Honda has a very rich racing heritage, which many seem to forget. In fact, Honda has dominated practically every automotive sport it has participated in. Remember Ayrton Senna? Any true F1 fan does. Possibly the greatest F1 driver of all time. How about Prost? Who dominated F1 in the late 80s and early 90s? Honda would be the correct answer. Six Constructors championships in that time span. Back to Back F1 victories. In fact, the NSX was released at that time to try and capitalize on Honda's domination in F1. Ayrton Senna himself helped tune and test the car during development. A very big reason why, in 1991, the NSX was declared by almost every authority as the best handling car ever produced. To this day, 10 years later, it is still one of the best.
The McLaren-Honda domination is exactly what entered my mind when I heard their comment! Lets not forget the Williams-Honda cars that won the Championship in both '86 and '87. Honda won the Constructor's Championship from '86 to '91, that's 6 in a row!!!