348 - Fuel pump replacement | Page 2 | FerrariChat

348 Fuel pump replacement

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ferrarium, Feb 8, 2020.

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  1. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    #26 Ferrarium, May 8, 2020
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Ordered on the way will be here Tue. I will make some lines, show the parts and show how etc.
     
  2. Ferrarium

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    Crap lost track of wire polarity under the car to the fuel pumps. The terminal rings are the same size despite the posts being different sizes. The pumps do not energize with the power on, they only energize when cranking. I read previously they energized with the power on accessory to prime like the ABS does. SO I cant verity polarity. ugh.

    I am pretty sure power goes from the relay to the fuse, thus I believe I can unplug the fuse, unbolt the wires from the pump (they are unbolted already of course) then run power down the wire from a stand along battery and check polarity at the fuel pump end. Does that sounds reasonable?
     

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  3. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Actually, jump the relay and turn the key or accessory, that should send power from the car battery to the fuse (which I can check with multi meter) then I can check the power at the pump end with the pump wires disconnected and determine polarity.
     
  4. Ferrarium

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    For reference on the bottom after you install the pumps. Negative is the one closest to the drain plug when clocking over from the external fittings.


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  5. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

    Feb 17, 2020
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    Were they like that from the factory?
    I have just done this job on my 348 and my cables had the correct sizes for the terminals.
    Mine was a complete mess inside, I'm not sure how on earth any fuel was getting to the injectors, fuel filters significantly blocked, fuel pumps full of crap, pre filter clogged.....
    I have sent my injectors away for flow check and service, I think its important to do that when this job is done.
     
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  6. Ferrarium

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    #31 Ferrarium, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
    Oh inside they are all different ring terminal sizes and on the outside the the posts are different sizes alright but the ring terminals bolting to the underside of the pump are the same size. The wiring is absolutely OEM.

    Fuel injector service yes its a good idea after all this time, especially when doing the pumps. I did that actually and powder-coated the rails about 50 miles before I did the pumps. Ohh and I put new FPR's in too. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/injector-and-rail-refurbish.607866/

    Got brand new MAF's, O2 sensors, and thermocouples to boot. If I get a 1212 code it will not be due to fuel let's hope.
     
  7. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

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    Oh interesting, on mine they are different so you can't get them mixed up....Maybe somewhere along the way Ferrari changed it....

    Nothing like having confidence in your fuel system, a lot of times its something overlooked...
     
  8. Ferrarium

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    Different everywhere but the underside connection, new guy must have done that harness.:mad:
     
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  9. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

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    That damn new guy 'eh!!
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Caution: According to the wiring diagrams, you don't need to turn the key. It puts power on the pump straight from the battery. Jumpering the pump relays also puts power on other devices (02 sensor heaters, etc). Pull fuses 9 & 20 so that you won't get sparks.
     
  11. steved033

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    First one after lunch....
     
  12. Ferrarium

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    OK turns out the ring terminal hole sizes are 1mm different, I stuck my Mitutoyo caliper in it. Unlike the rest of the system where the ring terminals and rings are go-no go, the connections of the fuel pump to car wiring do interchange but not easily. The 10MM bolt threads through the 8MM ring terminal and the 8mm bolt is loose in the 10MM ring terminal. So at this point I can conclude the 10mm goes in the slightly larger one and the 8mm goes in the slightly smaller one. But I learned how to jump relays and test components like fans etc. :)
     
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  13. Ferrarium

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    #38 Ferrarium, May 13, 2020
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
    Ok so I got all new NLA hoses (I think the last 2) but for those who cant get them I bought fittings and hoses and clamps for demo purposes so you can make them, its trivial and frankly a better solution. I wound up buying 2 different types of hoses in 3 sizes to figure it out as well as 3 different barbs. This should make it easier for others and not have to experiment.

    1) You can use Dorman 3/8 plastic fuel line (5/16 also works but is SUPER hard to put on barbs I gave up but did not try that hard) actually all those plastic ones are hard I used heat gun and boiling water you REALLY have to get it hot then I worry about failure, or Gates 5/16 submersible fuel line I am using for illustration purposes. If used plastic I would use 5/6 fittings and 3/8 hose for sure.
    2) Get a clamp kit
    3) Slide clamps on hose then press on the 2 barb fittings
    4) Put the clamp pliers on and squeeze
    5) There you go a fuel pump line, route and affix accordingly

    You can do both lines this way actually.
    Fittings https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220624b
    Hose https://www.jegs.com/i/Gates/465/27093/10002/-1

    This sample used 1/4 hose as it is a 1/8 barb, I accidentally ordered 3/8 barb 10mm fittings and did not want to order any more fittings just to illustrate so I used 1/8 barb and 1/4 hose. You want the 5/16.
     

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  14. Ferrarium

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    BTW that cap on top of the fuel pump that clamps the banjo fitting down, it was finger loose on one of my pumps. I suspect that means one bank had lower fuel pressure as the hose can not pressurize properly as it just bleeds out around the banjo, I wonder how many persistent CEL in the 1212 range that "may" have caused for folks over the years. Just postulating here. We'll see if mine runs better I guess, should button it up this weekend.
     
  15. martinperry

    martinperry Karting

    Jun 4, 2008
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    I've just finished doing this on my 2.7 355 - Obviously one of those C19 lockdown jobs.
    I was forced into it by the boots deteriorating so badly that they killed the pumps!! Unfortunately with an almost full tank.

    Really cant emphasize strongly enough to ALL owners, that this is essential on our cars - there are no ifs or buts - they will fail and make a horrible mess!

    The only odd thing on mine was that when I put it all back together, It still wouldn't run. Pumps were not getting power.
    All fuses OK, so maybe relays. Pulled and jumpered them, pumps running, engine fires. Assume both relays gone bad, but put them back just in case. Car now runs perfectly!!
    I am guessing corrosion around the relay pins, but who knows?

    And I thought crap / weird electrics were a Lucas thing!
     
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  16. Ferrarium

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    Pumps ready to go back in all clean and dressed with new rubber. I used the fuel safe Permatex under the sealing o-ring just to hold it in place not to seal it, a really light film, it is very easy to pinch against the tank if it comes loose. Clean the underside of the tank pump opening really well so you get a good mating surface. I also used the permatex fuel thread sealant on the fuel fittings going to the pump just for good measure.

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  17. Ferrarium

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    As near as I can tell the nuts for the pump to tank are 18 lb pounds torque.
     
  18. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

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    Thats pretty tight for a 6mm thread.....I would think it would be more like 7 or 8ft/lb....
    When I was an apprentice mechanic my teacher used to make me do most stuff without a torque wrench (35 years ago), he taught me that when you are tightening a bolt or nut, you can feel when its the right tightness, you have to also consider gasket crush etc too. It sounds a but crazy but its true, so I only use torque wrenches on some critical stuff, things like Cam pulley bolts, shaft bolts, heads etc etc...engine front covers, big ends etc etc..
    But if you are not used to it better to use a torque wrench to be safe....
     
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  19. Ferrarium

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    Yes you are correct its 7 1/2 foot pound, thanks for that! I though it was 8mm, it is a 6mm stud. I used to be a jet mechanic 30 years ago before getting into technology, we used torque wrenches for everything. Usually I use the wrist torque too, your right you can definitely feel it. With a large plate and 12 bolts in a circle for the pump, getting even seating pressure on the o-ring is optimal
     
  20. KevZep

    KevZep Formula Junior

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    Yes use torque wrenches for everything Jet engines!! I wouldn't trust myself!! But seriously, if I haven't been working on anything for a while I'll use a torque wrench at first until I get my feel back...
    Yes optimum is even torque on that plate for sure...

    Yeah I would have hated to see you snap or strip one of those studs!! I only caught that as I found two torque errors in the 348 SM so I was thinking about it at the time...

    Nice job on those pumps by the way!!
     
  21. Ferrarium

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    Thanks for catching looked at the wrong row on general torque specs!
     
  22. Ferrarium

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    #47 Ferrarium, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    • Be sure you use new nylon lock nuts. I used generic M7 washers from hardware store. The original tension washers are brittle and they break really easy so don't reuse them.
    • Fill it with 6 gallons of fuel check for leaks.Plug in battery and fire it up and let the ECU relearn, don't touch throttle till fans com on.
    • Check for leaks under the car as its running.
    • When your all done shut it off and let it cool down and check for leaks under the car by checking for wetness on fittings and nuts and seams.

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  23. Ferrarium

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    It fired right up, the idle is better for certain. The wife came out and said "it sounds great". Not sure if it was clogged pumps or the cap that was loose on top of the pump that supplies pressure to the fuel rail or what exactly but it is better. It also revs "smoother" for lack of a better word but it describes it best as the revs are more matched to the throttle movement they seem very much more in sync. Very pleased. Go do it people.

    I have replaces just about everything that causes issues, only thing left is new clutch and TOB. Even if it is not needed its getting it, I also got the last Billet flywheel and Voith rebuild kit form MD clutches before then closed shop. :)
     
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  24. F312PB

    F312PB Rookie

    Aug 29, 2015
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    Many thanks for sharing your great job, i have just some question because, maybe for my poor english, I didn't understand some steps and parts you ended up to use to do the final job on the lines.
    Looking at the final pump reassembly it seems to me you didn't use the OEM Ferrari items (quick release and damage things ;)) but two new self made lines with new barbed fittings, new lines etc. without quick disconnect parts.
    It seems also you didn't put on the example line you did with Oetiker ear clamps, so if yes could you tell me the exact parts (lines and fittngs) you used to make brand new lines in metric and inches.
    My undertanding is you used this parts https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220624b
    and this Gates lines https://www.jegs.com/i/Gates/465/27093/10002/-1 but I'm not so sure, and finally did you use the Dorman tool for assembling parts or something else?
    Many thanks in advance,
    Paolo
     
  25. Ferrarium

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    I damaged the lines or rather they were damaged. I while l ordered lines and fittings to make them and was waiting I started calling around and as it turns out I founds two fuel supply lines they are NLA but someone had 2 in stock. I bought them and they arrived before the parts for me to make lines. So I used the OEM lines but showed how to make them for others who may not be able to find lines when parts they finally came in. Also the 4 OEM lines are about $500 USD for the set. There is no need for them is the point you can make them for very little.

    I got both Dorman fuel line and gates. I only showed how to make the gates version, its the same process for either one but that plastic line is really tough to work with. You can use either the Gates or Dorman lines the clamp kit is the same for both lines.

    The part numbers and links you showed are correct. The just get the clamp kit.
     

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