Has anyone noticed or experienced problems with the Fuel filter 95180050. Fitting a new fuel filter today and it appears that the base of the paper element is to wide and hits the base of the dished FISPA housing before the rubber sealing ring touches the case. Ideally it should be tapered. On the other end, The spring retaining metal bush shields that rubber ring (to prevent damage) but stands proud of it, by about 3mm So this would touch the case before the sealing ring!! The metal element case also hits the FISPA housing. Either way both sealing rings do not seal the fuel inlet to outlet so there is a short circuit allowing potentially dirty fuel past the filter. Placing a small extra O ring at the base cures the problem and makes a perfect seal. Make sure its NBR rubber ! Tony Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've recently serviced identical/similar(?) assemblies on few Daytonas, but haven't experienced any problems. All filter kits purchased from reputable long term suppliers, although some were bought years ago.
Timo that's good to know and its possible the fuel canister for the Daytona is bigger. The FISPA filter canister used on the 246 is not large enough to accommodate the UFI 26.617.00 filter because of the dished base.. Its not obvious initially because of the spring but if you remove the spring and drop the filter in the canister case the element hits the casing before the rubber sealing ring touches the base for an effective seal. It needs a spacer of about 3mm. Also the metal spring retaining ring is to tall (see photo) so the element should be mounted with the spring on the top as this fits perfectly on the top housing, the bail out handle (not needed) is at the base. Tony
Had a few people ask me to explain and its difficult to get it acroos simply so did a small sketch for those that are interested. I made up a 4mm thick SS washer with a 16mm hole, and then fitted a 2.5mm NBR washer, this acts as a seal below the new washer and the top fits snugly up against the UFI grommet on the paper element. If you use the UFI filter 26.617.00 it doesnt work in my humble opinion! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Tony, Are you sure about the filter element orientation and spring location ? All the (Daytona) ones I've seen/worked on, the spring goes/is at the "bottom" of the canister housing, pushing the element upwards. Nice drawing, though.
Timo I have always fitted it with the spring on the bottom as well but when i opened the filter box the spring wasnt attached to the paper element so wondered which end it attached to. So i dropped the element into the casing and heard a metal clank. Being inquisitive I investigated why. Its then that I realised the element hits the casing before the lower gasket / seal as any chance of making a decent joint at the base. The idea of both grommets on the element is to obviously make a petrol tight seal each end. If you look at the element in post 1, you see the metal ring stands proud of the grommet so cannot make a seal. If the lower grommet was a tight fit around the bolt projection (upstand where securing bolt screws into) on the canister then it would work as we have always fitted them, but it is a sloppy fit so unfiltered fuel can bypass element. Mounting the spring on the top it now forces the element downwards and makes a seal on the new spacer and additional NBR washer. The top grommet slides over a sleeve in the upper housing which is about 10mm long, this allows the seal to float and find it final position. The grommet is a tight fit. In my opinion its not designed for the FISPA case and ideally the element should be tall enough to be compressed onto each grommet (flat face) when tightening the securing bolt. Fitting the spring on the bottom the element is forced up and pushes the grommet away from the base and a effective seal. Unfortunately i cannot see any other element that would work better so we are stuck with the UFI filter. Next time you have a FISPA cannister on the bench, take a few minutes to look and hopefully my ramblings will make sense. Happy to be proved dumb Best tony
Tony, While I do have several tens of thousands of detailed images I’ve captured photo-documenting my work in past 3-4 decades, including several Fispa filter assemblies before, during and after their service or restoration, unfortunately majority of them are unorganized and finding something useful could take hours. So, here’s a quick drawing reference of my experience/interpretation how the filter is installed and sealed inside the canister/cover housing. Hopefully it makes sense, including the fact that the filter itself is not intended to bottom out or touch the canister, other than the seal wrapping (and sealing) around the (internally) threaded tube (= receiver for the bolt/ “bolt shank”? ) extending up from the bottom. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Makes perfect sense Timo. The drawing i did is to scale 1:1 at A4 The trouble is that seal (grommet) you mention at the base (spring end) is a sloppy fit, about 3-4mm play so no effective seal is made.Hence unfiltered fuel seeping past and into the filtered fuel. If it was a tight fit then i get why its made that way. Both grommets are the same so either way its the same. On your drawing the two collars marked "as the same OD" are different. *** The lower one is smaller ( to just accept the bolt) which is why one of the grommets doesnt fit properly! The top one is fine. Fitting the spacer imo ensures proper sealing. Best Tony *** PS dont forget the upper housing collar is larger so the bolt passing through it has enough annular space around it to allow fuel to flow out
Tony, I don't know what else to suggest at this time. I admittedly took it for granted that both, upper and lower "collars" are same OD, based on filter grommet/seal have same ID and having never experienced/noticed said sloppiness, I haven't given it much thought. Obviously, this is something I will also investigate further next time I take one out and if finding it a valid concern, will try to think another (alternate) solution (I've already couple of ideas), but yours seem to be a good one, except perhaps turn the filter with spring end to bottom. Timo
worth checking out Timo, i was surprised when digging a little deeper. I also thought about it so the spring was on the bottom but rejected it as i wanted the [spring tension] to push down onto the new seal / spacer rather than push it up and away from it. Hopefully you can come up with a simpler solution, the easy answer is to get a grommet that fits properly but couldnt find anything to hand. Tony
Tony, I had a brand new filter housing from Maranello to hand which I'm planning to install on my E-series. I took it apart (factory assembled) and the orientation of the spring/filter is as shown in the photos and the bottom seal is a tight fit on the post with the spring at the base as Timo said. Of course, this is a new canister and you have the old type so it may have changed however I don't recall having any fit issues on my L-series which had the original Fispa unit. I'll be checking this next time I change the filter though... For reference, the centre post diameter is ~14.5mm if you could check as it would appear the current filter matches a re-designed housing. cheers Andrew
Andrew, thanks for the info, thats great to know. If you can, what is the post diameter (bottom of canister) and post diameter top aluminium housing. On the original FISPA unit its different by 3-4mm so the grommet on one end of the filter doesnt fit properly. Tony The base of the filter looks almost flat to me, the old unit is angled
This reminds of a recent nightmare I encountered with new engine mounts I had to replace on a clients Daytona. Long story short, it appears not only the OEM part number I've always used before when ordering (previously +/-3 years ago) has recently(?) been superseded with perhaps as many as 3 or more different #s, some of which may or may not be or have accurate/exact references or replacements for the given applications which include or intermix between several different model Ferraris of the era ('60s/'70s) and whether they're for engines or transaxles. And the most unfortunate issue is that the parts vendors, even the most long established and reputable, don't seem to have much clue as to why these changes have been implemented or what these rather significant differences are, especially when they all look exactly same. Took me nearly two weeks of research, procuring and some "laboratory" testing with several part #s + couple of used OEM mounts to figure out which ones I needed. And today the subject is still as clear as mud.
The newer filter canisters sold by the usual suppliers like the one I showed are made by FIAMM, unlike our old FISPA canisters - although the replacement filter part numbers are the same. The FISPA replacement filter was an LI1584 (purolator), see images below although I can't recall if this had a spring. I have boxes of old junk I kept for just these issues... so I will try to find this tomorrow. I searched some threads and one had quoted the size of the bottom hole of a UFI filter circa 2007 as 13mm diameter, see post#12: 308 FISPA Filter: Baldwin PF834 Does Not Match I had another spare UFI filter with the same part# as yours and this was identical, ~14.4mm which fits well over the ~14.5mm diameter center post in the FIAMM canister. So, it seems the UFI filter design has changed in the past 10 years to accommodate the ~1.5mm larger diameter centre post in the newer FIAMM canister? It's confusing as I read 308's used this filter with a FIAMM canister - something has changed. An alternative fix might be a sleeve over the centre post if this turns out to be the issue, update the canister (not likely) or add the seal you suggested. The top hole in the UFI filter was about 15.5mm diameter but I didn't measure the top post, that presses against the lid face so no issue being a larger hole size. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow you have an original filter, interesting to note the filter is marked alto "top" must be for a reason, did the two grommets have different bores? . I am still convinced the flat grommet face should be the sealing point rather than the internal sides of the grommet, no pressure can be exerted on the rubber to form a decent seal. Interesting to note the diameter on UFI website that the 26.617.00 filter everybody supplies is 73.5mm tall x 62mm dia with two holes 15.8mm dia which is sort of ties in with the 15.5mm, this figures as the top collar wasnt the issue. The bolt collar at the base of the cannister was my concern and that seems to be 14.5mm, hence the sloppy fit i noted. A sleeve would work but it would have to be a tolerance fit to seal correctly, my solution was the best option i could figure out in the garage without specialist equipment. Incidentally Ferrari UK say there filter is a FIAMM filter but the picture actually is a UFI 26.617.00 filter and ironically UFI dont list this part as suitable for the 246. I need a pill !! Thanks Tony
Tony, Turns out keeping boxes of original junk parts does pay off sometimes... as expected the bottom seal of the UFI filter is 1mm too small. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are a few side by side photos of the top, bottom and UFI bottom seal. I agree a 0.5mm thick sleeve is a bit hard to find and install. OTOH it looks like the bottom seal is easily replaced if the spring was retained. Folks replacing these incorrect filters are just filling the carbs with junk, the old filter they took out probably worked better! Fortunately, on the 206 and L-series there is the smaller regulating filter downstream. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Andrew, great research presentation ! Glad to see I'm far from only one here with OCD working on old cars I will now have to remove the filter from the latest application/installation I did, to see if it too ended up with incorrect/poor fit and see if any of my recent ideas for corrections, including couple I just came up with while viewing your pictures, are practical.
Tony-- I have been using a Baldwin PF866. Pretty close in dimensions to the OEM filter that dgt measured above. Quick important measurements are: Bottom hole ID, about 13.5 mm (close to the OEM 3.4 mm) Top hole ID, about 17 mm (about 2 mm larger than OEM 15.2 mm) Overall length including rubber, about 76 mm (close to the OEM 75 mm) Diameter, about 64.5 mm (close to the OEM 63 mm) So pretty close dimension wise compared to the OEM filter except for the top hole ID measuring about 2 mm larger in diameter than the OEM filter. Easier to make a 2 mm (.080") wall thickness bushing if required for the top hole-if required.
UFI detail the grommet on both ends at 15.8mm (unless they have changed it) so the gap is bigger. I did measure the upstand inside the cannister but cannot find it anymore!!! I did think about fitting a new grommet but most off the shelf grommets are neoprene and useless for modern fuels. NBR or better still Viton is the best option. Tony
Thanks Mark, good info Baldwin cross reference chart list many FISPA filters but not the LI1584 .... typical!! https://www.baldwinfilters.com/Literature/EMAM/EMAM_Baldwin_Manufacturers_Cross-Reference_Form560.pdf Page 320 Cannot seem to find their PF866 though? The Baldwin equiv for the UFI 2661700 is PF834 ? no spec details though Tony
The UFI I had handy is at least 6-7 years old, the bottom seal was a bit smaller, I did measure to the 2 ribs that you can see in my last pic looking down at the seal (i.e. min diameter). Will try to find a Baldwin filter, hope it’s available.
As a side issue and just as important, these UFI filters dont do the job and checked the fuel pump as a precautionary measure. I was running a Airtex E8016S pump as it delivers a nice consistent pressure for Weber carb cars, however it didnt look good after only a few years and was becoming very noisy. The facet pump is a far superior unit but i dont like the red top (480532E) pump most people sell as a replacement, these pumps are far to powerful for the Webers as they deliver a good fuel flow, way over what the Dino engine needs, but to higher pressure @ 8psi. Found that Facet now make the 477060 pump and although it delivers less fuel flow (34 GPH 128 l/hr) ) than the red top (45GPH 175l/hr ) its pressure range matches the old Bendix pump delivering a stable 4psi and is very quiet. I reckon the 246 engine needs about 20 GPH (80l/hr approx) at max output ie 200bhp Not USGPH Tony
Years ago when I went to replace the Holley fuel pump and filter pieces that were in my M-series, I acquired a pair of the Facet 476087 because it seemed to be the best fit for the application. Of course, I removed the Facet labels and put on the proper Bendix labels for period correct appearance and used all the correct clamps. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nice job Ron, i thought about the Bendix labels as well. The 476087 is another good choice, it delivers slightly less flow rate (30GPH) and at higher pressure (5 psi) but it can be throttled down by your filter regulator. Eventually went for the 477060 as it did away with the need to regulate down and was just another piece of kit to go wrong! Thanks Tony Is one a standby?
