FOC - How should it change | Page 8 | FerrariChat

FOC - How should it change

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by sletti, Oct 21, 2005.

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  1. RAY430RED

    RAY430RED Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,112
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    Ray F
    LOL hahahha
     
  2. 360CS

    360CS F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Joe J

    Oh Crap!!! take my name off then Pls ..Lol!!!!
     
  3. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,938
    Berks, UK
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    francis newman
    This has been a very interesting thread with a mimum of deviation from the central topic!! :) There have been some good points raised and to my mind some misconceptions corrected.

    I am not (regrettably) a Ferrari owner, but I have a passion for them, and am an active PHR member. In fact I know quite a few of you from FOC track days, Councours etc.

    I think Johnathan Tremlett and John Gould have done a good job of objectively explaining some aspects which have obviously irked people but which were maybe not fully understood. But quite rightly they also say that, as with most things in life, some change might be beneficial..

    i would like to share some of my own experience with you. I have been a PHR member for nearly 10 years (I might have missed a year in the midddle somewhere - not sure). Initially I was happy to just get the magazines and go along to the Concours when it wasn't too far away, to admire the beautiful cars. My wife was happy to come along with our (Ferrari mad) son and we'd meet up with a couple of friends from the Ferrari emai list (a precursor to F-Chat). Occasionally I thought of going along to my local area meeting but never really got round to it though I did go to a couple of Essex meetings with a friend.

    In truth - I was a little scared to get involved. Yes maybe the FOC seemed impenetrable - but then I've always been a bit shy on that sort of thing :)

    Then three years ago I read in the newsletter an appeal for PHR helpers. So I contacted the office and off I went to help. And what did I find. A great bunch of people. PHR, FOC and Secretariat and since then I've had a load of fun.

    Sure - like in every walk of life - there are all sorts, but in general most I have come into contact have been the sort of people want to hang out with - and there has been a high emphasis on beer and jeans at all levels :)

    So now, along with my wife I am an active member of our local Berkshire area group - which is thriving. And I have made a lot of very good friends.

    I have been a member of various clubs in my life and as always it is a matter of you get out of a club what you put into it.

    The FOC centrally organises numerous "national" events. The race series, the Concours, the driving days etc. In fact when you look at the calendar of events, and if you have ever been to any of them and see the work that Peter and the secretariat put into them, long hours, living out of a pretty cramped camper van, I do actually sometimes wonder why they want to do it. The truth is that there are all sorts of trials and tribulations that Peter and his team have to put up with, and which because of their professionalism the members are very rarely aware. Wahtever has been written here, I can assure you that Peter will be a VERY hard act to follow - at any price.

    However a club is about far more than that. Who wants everything organised from the centre? Part of the appeal of a club is to be involved at a local level. In our area we have recently organised a visit to Ferrari GB headquarters (hosted by their iwn Tony Willis - who - let us remember - is also a director of the FOC) charity runs, charity displays, our regular monthly run to country pubs. Isn't that what someone was asking for? Half teh fun is being invoilved in doing it.

    Trouble is - seems to me that for £75 many want EVERYTHING organised for you. This is a club. You join it to be involved. So get involved. If you donlt like the way it;s done at the moment - join in and change it. It's YOUR club. If that means going to the AGM to get your voice heard - is one Sunday morning too much?

    Just my litle rant.

    Hud9on.

    Very sorry you didn't get to park beside your dad for your picnic. It was probably ME that sent you in opposite directions :-(

    The splitting of the V12s from V8s is not an elitist thing. It is just a fact that older Ferraris will NOT be V8S or Flat 12s. OK - but not all V12s will be old.

    The Concours is actually also the annual national meet. One would assume that there is desire to see some of the older cars - and in fact Peter always manages to assemble a great selection showing the history of the Ferrari marque. Much of that is pre-arranged and the cars that are assumed to be coming will be allocated to a specific area to best show them. But there is always an unknown quantity of older, rarer cars turning up. As I see it, (and this is just as I have worked it out in my own mind) we have a finite area in which we hope to get as many of these cars displayed without leaving the area empty. Therefore the delimiter is V12. If more of the oder cars were really expected - or the area smaller - it might be narrowed further. It is different in every venue - and of course teh weather on the day does have a large influence!. If we didnlt separate the older stuff they would just be lost in the hundreds of others and many would not get the chance to see and admire the Ferrari heritage.

    So sorry you didn't manage to stay together. There would have been no problem with your dad parking with you - just not the other way round. I really don't think that is an elitist thing.

    Not always easy to convey that to a driver in a hot noisy car with an impatient convoy lined up behind him (not saying that was nec the case).

    Anyway - just my personal thoughts.

    Francis
     
  4. GrahamS

    GrahamS F1 Veteran
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    Good post Francis
     
  5. 355fiorano

    355fiorano Formula Junior

    Oct 21, 2003
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    Philip
    Francis thanks for your post. Its a great indication of how one can make something happen for himslef. I certainly felt that way about the FOC a few years ago and I was really happy and involved. The change came when I started to look a little outward by going to other club events like BMW or Lotus and glodtrack and RMA tack days as well as the French FOC. Then I started to realise that the UK FOC was not delivering what it could. Yes it is delivering somthing, and as a matter of fact it is delivering a whole lot more than most other FOC's around the world but that is to be expected with being one of the largest FOC's in the world. Many people have said it Peter and Susanne are the most busy people on the planet doing this (for chicken feed that they don't in any way need anyway - which I do not really agree with unless someone shows me other numbers). Although I agree that to replace them would need some serious thought and vetting of the candidates and their commitment, I think that they have shown so far that they are intransient and set in their ways. I also feel that they gloss over any bad feedback. I wrote to the club about their Summer ball. I know others that said they woudl write. EVERYONE I spoke to there said they were appauled. When the magazine came out, there was bearly a word about how bad it was. I also know that Izza and a couple of others have given feedback and atteded some meetings but no changes have been made. On track days, when i bring the £25 lunch, everyone thinks its ridiculous. I have not spoken to anyone that has defended this. On the Property, again I have not spoken to ANYONE that thinks this is a good idea. I have been a member (and will continue to be one) for some years too and the amount of conversations that I have heard where poeple struggle to the valus of spending £75 is astounding. If you sit to think. 3000 members pay £75 p.a. i.e. £225,000 income PLUS the advertising revenues which we won't even count, even if 60% of this goes to produce the magazines, there is £90k still left ! That is 3 FREE track days for everyone. You can look at it another way. Out of 3000 members, only a few actually bother to come to events at the moment. Assume this is 25% i.e. 750 people. The excess of JUST the subscriptions would mean that these members should get benefits of £120 (i.e. 60% more that they paid).
    If the club was a business the shareholders would have certainly replaced the management or the management would have had to adapt. I think Peter and Susan can do it. I also think Peter and Susanne can pay themselves £100k each working the same amount of hours, and no-one would say a thing IF and only IF the club was producing the sort of benefits to its members that it potentailly can.

    Rant over ... again
     
  6. Hud

    Hud F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for your words Francis. So what your telling me is next time you try to split us up - tell you to pee off!!
     
  7. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
    1) The FOC may not rent Peter's front room but the member's make a loss for the use of it! He could free upso much time that he could support events and get increased income/sponsorship if the magazine was done properly via a publisher not via his front room. It would also save each member about £15 of his £75 per annum.

    2) Can Peter use a computer? Poor John is typing manically to defend him when he could post a thread himself. It sums up the club that the FOC management won't demean/sink themselves to post on an "unofficial" Ferrari site. I am sure it won't get them excommunicated! To add insult to injury they go onto limit the enjoyment of members merely to cling to their so called independence.

    If he can't please revert to point 1) as this is now in a desperate situation.

    3) A prime theme on this site has been a justification as to why the Secretariat should keep his job on a permanent basis. Given the FOC's waning membership (as a percentage of UK Ferrari owners) it is clear the organisation is not in touch with the modern Ferrari owners and as such, this is a critical point.

    4) If we are going to vote anyone onto the board of management, then I am very willing to help organise coaches and hotels for the AGM. We will need to get 100 + people there. However, why do we need to get committee approval of our candidates? Isn't that merely job protection for the old boys club?

    5) We don't need to split the beer/champagne crowds. A properly organised club would be growing (see point 3) and could then add to our collective bargaining power by getting enough sponsors to satisfy all. A short cut has been shown via the use of other owners club's sponsors but nothing has been done.

    6) the club claims to be in the dark and independent - can they please stay at home and let me go to the free factory tour and dinner for Owners Clubs in Maranello once a year.

    Izza
     
  8. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    francis newman
    Hi Hud9on

    well - yes - if you do it nicely :)
     
  9. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    francis newman
    Philip

    I never touched on any of the points you mention so i really donlt understand why you are doing so in a reply to my post. The club accounts are there for all members to see and question. It's up to to you to do so. But do it in the right place - which is not here.

    If you have a moan - raise it at the AGM. That is the same for ANY club!
     
  10. RAY430RED

    RAY430RED Formula 3

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    Ray F
    Well said Francis ,both posts !! RAY
     
  11. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
    I have raised many of these points in front of Ray and the other area organisers. The fact that a) nothing has been done and b) the whole discussion was excluded from the minutes shows that this reliance on formal meetings such as the AGM isn't working for the FOC.
     
  12. RAY430RED

    RAY430RED Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Ray F
    Hey Izza dont drag me into this ,there is a big differance between an Area Organisers meeting to which i remember you being at and a FOC AGM

    Iseem to recall you going on about free trackdays and French Trackdays and trackdays mixed with racemeetings all of which did not seem possible for one reason or other . I do NOT recall any of the points raised in your post 182 at 10.06yesterday Whats more i dont dont agreee with much of it either

    RAY
     
  13. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

    Mar 15, 2004
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    now now children we all know the FOC is an old boys club run by old boys and dont like change but its about time they to notice of the members before they have none left
     
  14. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,696
    I don't have a copy of the accounts to hand, but I do have some numbers. However, this is a public forum and I think it entirely inappropriate to discuss anyone's remuneration on here. Peter Everingham is charged with running the FOC according to guidelines set by the committee and directors. If they changed the guidelines the FOC would be run differently. The FOC is run on pretty similar lines to other Clubs, which is that issues can be raised and motions tabled at the AGM. I do find it really quite frustrating that people are not prepared to turn up at the AGM (as Francis rightly says: one Sunday morning a year) and make their points there. That is not to say that I do not think many of the points raised have some validity and I have undertaken to push them forward myself because I want the best Club for everyone.

    As previously mentioned I understand the problems were recognized. To my mind the issue is that that was not publicly stated with appropriate explanation and details of future steps. In fact, I have said a number of times that I think communication on a lot of the behind-the-scenes issues is lacking.

    I agree and to me this is THE major issue that needs to be addressed.

    It is actually much easier to do something in a Club than it is a business because you don't have the vested interests of the corporate shareholders. If you want to do this then turn up at the AGM and vote appropriately!

    I'm not sure how you work that out!

    I am struggling to understand this. Ferrari News (which is included in the membership fee) is intended to (and does) cover Club activities. Therefore, the content has to be provided by the Club. That content then goes to a publisher who handles the layout and ultimately the printing. It is then delivered to the Club offices from where it is mailed out along with inserts etc. Some of the costs are, of course, covered by advertising. I am really not clear how you are suggesting that could be done for free. With regard to freeing up Peter's time, you will know of course, that Mick Marriott is now substantially responsible for Ferrari News.

    There really is no need to be insulting. Please let us keep the discussion civil. In my view it is absolutely not up to Peter to defend himself here. He is running the FOC according to the directions of the committee and directors. Personally, I think one of them should be posting on here.

    The issue over the Club's independence from the Factory has been discussed at the AGM and a vote was taken in relation to the proposed course of action (and I'm sorry, but I don't recall you objecting then, which is everyone's opportunity to do so). In fact, as far as I recall, there was unanimous support for the proposed course of action.

    I really do find it frustrating that a number of the posts on here are diasgreeing with FOC policy on various issues and yet a forum exists (the AGM) to make your points and have your say. That is not something unique to the FOC. You don't even have to actually attend, you can easily contact the Office (or another member who will be attending) beforehand and ask for a particular issue to be raised on your behalf, or for views on a particular issue or issues to be made known. That is certainly not to say that nothing should happen except once a year and I think there is a problem in that changes can be quite slow.


    I think the first part of this statement is somewhat overstated, given that the FOC has a vastly greater membership as a percentage of UK owners than the French Club has of French owners! Ferrari Owners and FOC members are, however, a diverse bunch. It think it is probably true that the make up of the committee does not reflect that diversity. Again, though, that is something that it is up to the members to change (and why I have volunteered to propose Mr Hudson to the committee - that and the promise of some bananas naturally:D).

    All committee members are elected by the membership (including the existing ones). Surely you understand this? It isn't a question of committee approval. It is membership approval. And that means you and me. Since there has only been one candidate for each post at the the AGMs I have been to it is rather irrelevant. Why only one candidate? Because not enough people are willing to put themselves forward.

    Actually, it isn't free. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'in the dark'. I do think this has been made clear. The Club is not seeking to be entirely devolved from the factory but is seeking to maintain control of its own affairs. As stated above, this is policy agreed by the membership (not just the committee). You are absolutely entitled to disagree, but then you also ought to be saying so at the appropriate time.

    I will re-iterate one last time (boring, I know!) that I am NOT charged with defending the FOC or Peter Everingham or anyone else. All views expressed are my own and I fully agree with some of the points raised (but not others). John Gould and myself will be pursuing all these points in due course (although, please allow that both of us and indeed the FOC committee and directors, have 'day jobs' and this won't be instantaneous). I encourage anyone to feel free to pm me with any issues or suggestions and/or add them here. But also, remember what something like the AGM is for. Get along and make your points there (and accept it with good grace if the majority don't accept you every point). Finally, I don't want the very many good things about the FOC; some of the superb events it organises and the hard work put in by very many people; to be forgotten in the discussion about changes and improvements!

    Jonathan
     
  15. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

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    with what i have read on hear the FOC seems to be a closed shop they run it how they want to as a few people ohave complained and nothing was done about it but i do agree that peter should not come on here to discuss this but reading between the line peter does what the committee says so i think its get a new committee
    also the anuall general meeting was at whittlebury hall at £100 a night so not all members can afford that which is helping the rich members get there own way again
     
  16. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,696
    The committee are who the members vote them to be. People are always willing to complain about a committee or whatever, but much less willing to stand up and be counted themselves. More power to hud90n for doing so.

    The AGM is free to attend. Yes, it is at Whittlebury Hall, but you don't have to stay overnight. It isn't that far, even from Yorkshire! (And even if you want to stay overnight, you don't have to stay there)

    Jonathan
     
  17. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

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    i agree but there was at least 20 members stayed in the limetrees as they said that whittleburry hall was to stuck up

    Anyway i am running the MALLORCA FOC AREA
     
  18. Hud

    Hud F1 Veteran
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    So does this mean im on the committee now?
     
  19. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Not quite yet. At the AGM. I'm told you've been sent the details!

    Jonathan
     
  20. Hud

    Hud F1 Veteran
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    Will i get annointed at a ceremony? Touched on my right shoulder by peter and have to take the foc vows, whilst holding a copy of ferrari news?
     
  21. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    You can do that if you want, but then everyone might think you're a berk!:D
     
  22. Hud

    Hud F1 Veteran
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    Get back to serial number spotting :):)
     
  23. steve f

    steve f F1 World Champ

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    what do you mean THINK
     
  24. tommo

    tommo Formula 3
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    Don't get too excited Rob, the AGM's not until April! It'll be a long thread if we manage to keep this up until next spring!
     
  25. Hud

    Hud F1 Veteran
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    Gives me plenty of time to work out my office lay out and what leather furniture to order.
     

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