Penn and Teller on vaccines. Language warning. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo&app=desktop[/ame]
The problem with Penn and Teller is they're all or nothing. They don't educate, just label everyone on one side of a debate full of **** and throw them under the bus. Their episode on organic foods was absurdly one sided and misleading. I like them as comedians.
What did we do before flu shot ? We got sick and got over it. This why I have received flu shot. Nor have I gotten the flu. I do natural things to try and keep my immunity up . Also, I think working outside and exercising outside helps ... Those are over weight usually have more health issues so depressed immunity isn't uncommon .Those who exercise regularly usually eat better . Piper, I imagine your wife would agree.
The Great Influenza: The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History: John M. Barry: 9780143036494: Amazon.com: Books I have not had the flu shot, try to stay healthy, but am not living in a haze, when I see someone sickly I hightail it away from them. Science is science in this case.
You cannot compare what happened 100 years ago to today people are living longer because of science. I'm not suggesting the flu shot is a bad thing because for the very young and very old is could be a lifesaver. Science has also proven that those of us who practice a healthy lifestyle have less health issues. Lifestyle is the keyword not those who diet or exercise occasionally
You asked what would happen without the flu shot, that 1918 pandemic could happen next year. Time has nothing to do with mutating viruses, an even worse one could happen anytime, BTW the people back then ate healthier than most do today. The majority of deaths this winter in North carolina were in the healthy age group, mid-20's to mid-50's.
Our household generally agrees with the philosophy that we're better off building our best immunity than taking the bombardment from what we see as unnecessary vaccinations, a portion of them, not all. I choose nowadays to get the flu shot myself because I'm getting fearful of catching the flu again. Only had the real flu twice in my life, and I'll be damned if I'll be the one that brings it home to my family and I don't want to suffer it ever again. Convincing my wife is an impossibility. Vinny, agree the mortality from some strains like H1N1 have been eye opening, shocking. I fully expect the healthy 20-50yr old fatalities though probably weren't your best, strongest humans. From a nutritional standpoint, I'm there. I've met DonJuan. The flu isn't going to take him out. Guy is a serious athlete and obviously gets nutrition. I see and listen to both sides, even if I do tend to post my wife's propaganda rather often. It's good to hear the debate.
I have not ever (nor will I) get a flu shot. Why should I dump all those chemicals into my body? My $.02 anyway. I'm one of the anti-vaccine nutcases.
I'm sure DY348 is a great athlete and you do your best to build your immunity BUT the reason I bring up the 1918 influenza that killed lots of people, many in 24 hours is because humans have not changed genetically since then and generally speaking a lot of those folks had FAR better immunity than we do now. Now people search out organic foods and do some exercise to get/stay healthy, right? Well back then in 1918 EVERYONE ate organics ALL THE TIME. Organic foods are those that don't have all the antibiotics in the meats or herbicides/pesticides in the fruits/veggies/grains. Well guess what -- the 1st antibiotic was penicillin discovered formerly in 1928 and DDT was the first pesticide discovered in 1939. Also back then most food was grown local and fresh, not loaded with preservatives. So the people dropping dead in 1918 were eating healthier than we CAN and also were eating massive doses of probiotics in their foods that we can not come close to. All this means their guts were much better off than ours, much stronger immune systems. Plus most were much more active than we are, they had to be, very little transportation. And they were exposed to much more germs/bacteria than today. A lot of us look better than those people but that is from training, societal values, and improved aesthetics, not nutrition.
I'm just curious if any of the anti vaccine posters have ever taken a microbiology or immunology course to get behind the science of how our body makes antibodies when exposed to pathogens. Now that I know how the process works I won't be missing another flu shot or vaccination and neither will my children.
Thanks Bob , I will say this, if I worked indoors around people ie teachers court personnel etc, I would probably get the shot . In our lifetime , we haven't seen a real outbreak like 1918 , if it happens again it will be from a new strain with no vaccine . In Serbia , I read that young kids were exposed to the cold at young ages and cold water poured over them to build their immunity . How many get the flu there ? Also, in 1918 food was made healthier true but doesn't mean people ate healthier . I've taken microbiology ...HATE IT! and understand how pathogen works
Just a question, not meant to be argumentative at all I swear, but would you vaccinate your boy with Gardasil against HPV per CDC recommendations? Just trying to make a point.
Well I would say this, those that had the wherewithall to afford enough food for every meal ate way better than 99% of the population today. That food was, free of all crap that make food questionable today, fresh as can be, with lots of probiotics. Your base of health comes from your gut, not talking about athletic performance or muscle growth, just health of the bodies systems. It is all from the condition of your digestive track. Today most of us have compromised guts, from antibiotic usage in our lifetimes and hollow processed food. The people of 1918 never got a course of antibiotics, ever. Their gut flora were never damaged that way. BUT their problems were questionable water supply, poor hygiene everywhere, and sanitation. But some of the wealthy back then who had a clean environment should have been super healthy. Listen to Action Jackson, great info from this guy's vids [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HgX6d6OLpY]Boost Your Immune System Naturally with Prebiotics - YouTube[/ame]
It's hard to compare a vaccination like gardasil to the flu vaccine or Tdap, MMR, etc. HPV tends to be spread through much more intimate contact than other pathogens. A lot of the risk with HPV can be minimized through lifestyle choices.
I had that one last week. After six kids my mom couldn't remember if I'd ever had chicken pox. As far as giving the varicella vaccination to my kids, I would recommend they do it if they hadn't contracted it as a kid. Chicken pox as a young child is no big deal. Chicken pox as an adult is miserable. Let's not forget the nightmare of shingles. Sign me up for that vaccine too, no way I want to suffer through that if I don't have to. So I'll ask again. Has anyone here who is anti vaccination actually taken a college or graduate level course to learn about how your body makes antibodies when introduced to pathogens. The process of adaptive immunity is impressive stuff.
I certainly haven't, and blindly accepted all vaccines until my wife gave me pause, but it's not pause for concern over whether vaccinations work in general. It's a matter of whether they're contaminated, are as effective as advertised, are designed for the strains we're likely to encounter, might have dangerous side effects. My battle these days is equilibrium, getting my wife to consider any vaccinations at all we've not already had. The kids had many before my wife became fanatical against them. I'm pretty sure I'll not be able to get her take such a course. And I think I'd rather get shot with a vaccine than take the course myself. But I do listen and respect the opinions, of course, of those more learned than I. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a limit, and it's not the same for everyone, a tipping point where perceived risk might outweigh perceived reward. Granted the decision is likely more often than not arrived at through incomplete or inaccurate information. Doesn't help that it's obviously a very lucrative industry with lots of advertising and lobbying. Makes the industry easy to vilify when their business is pumping us full of crap we may or may not really need or benefit from.
I feel for you Bob because you're obviously a sensible guy, I honestly don't know what I'd do if my wife was vehemently against vaccines. Try looking at the drug makers from the perspective as a business owner. They'd be bankrupt in a hurry if their vaccinations were contaminated or didn't work. Do you think you'd be in business for much longer if every job you were contracted to do turned out disastrously? Just like any other business, the companies who makes vaccines are heavily incentivized to make a product that works without killing their customers. It's easy to vilify the drug companies without knowing the science behind what they do.
