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Fisker Karma part 2?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by koisokok, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula Junior
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    Actually the Destino is for sale and has been from what I understand along with the other VLF products Rocket and Force 10...just too much money for what it is IMO.

    Destino V8 ? VLF Automotive

    Agree about lack of sound. Thats why I noted it was a nice cruiser - to put it into perspective its as fast as a 308 or 328 (6sec 0-60), which isnt terrible, but wont excite any souls.

    Thats why the BMW i8 has a fake sound track. Exhaust noise may not be in the future as cars potentially go electric
     
  2. douglas360

    douglas360 Karting

    Nov 7, 2016
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    Yep. What's worse is that it was completely disconnected from what your right foot was doing...because the wheezy little EcoTec was really just a generator to make electricity so the electric motors could drive the car.

    Hmm, still vapor methinks. Ever seen a Destino or even a Force 1 in a real customer's hands?? There's not even a "build" button on the site. Maybe they'll take your deposit and let you dream along with them but that seems to be it.

    To be fair, I think the Karma did 0-60 in the low 5s. It was actually pretty quick for a 5,000 pound car.

    I just completed a AMG survey about them possibly adding hybrid drivetrains to the AMG line. It was a lot to do with exterior and interior branding highlights (which all seems like silly marketing BS to me). There were a few questions on performance and sound. My feedback was that I'll gladly take a hybrid in an AMG so long as performance is enhanced and there is no fakery or diminishment of the sound (or fewer cylinders). I think AMG want to find the balance. I don't hear many complaints about the exhaust note in the P1, LaF, or 918.
     
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  3. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula Junior
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    #28 sherrillt, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
    I think all the tests at the time put the car something like 6.3sec but Fisker claimed like 5.9sec. My 7series is a 5sec car and I can definitely tell the difference. You are correct about being decent acceleration given the weight - it's the weight of a full size massive Suburban. I think the optimization module brings it down to a 5sec car.

    In regards to the Destino - here's an article from last year about Lutz getting one and a reported sale. Santana had a Fisker Karma and reportedly famously wrecked it in Vegas falling asleep at the wheel one night:

    First Owner Takes Delivery of VLF Destino, World?s Fastest Four-Door | TheDetroitBureau.com
     
  4. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula Junior
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  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    sherrillt. i sent you a pm. please call when you get a moment. thanks
     
  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the revero is pretty cool. drove one a week ago.
    if design is more important to you than performance in a daily driver, then this is a car to consider.
     
  7. Echo Charlie 1131949ZULU

    Sep 11, 2017
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    Edward C. Chewning
    I thought someone bought these and put corvette engines in them ?
     
  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    lutz and his pal bought about 20 and did an LS swap. and sold them for like 250k.
    no more.
     
  9. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    What is the ICE in a Karma? # of cyls/hp/etc. Can it get out of its own way on the gas motor?
    Cleverly, the Revero website doesn't say much about that........

    Also, if a used one happens to have replacement (electric) motors, with warranty, who services them?
    No dealers in my area.......
     
  10. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Site shows dealer/service locations... there's one here... also:

    Search:
    • 260 horsepower (190 kW) 4-cylinder turbocharged internal combustion engine
    • 403 horsepower (301 kW) total power delivered at rear-wheel drive
    • 50 mi (80 km) all-electric range
    • 300 mi (480 km) total range
    • solar photovoltaic panelled roof
    • 21.4 kWh (77 MJ) lithium-ion battery
    • 10 hour charge time @ 16 amps and 120 volts (North American home socket)
    • 24 minutes to 80% charge at quickcharge
    • 5.4 second 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) acceleration time
    • 125 mph (201 km/h) top speed
     
  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the ice in a karma is a 4 cylinder twin turbo GM unit putting out about 260bhp. it is connected to the generator that then powers the wheels - no direct connection. so it is basically a mobile charging unit. (which was originally conceived to do a lot more charging than it was ultimately allowed to do, and now you can buy a module which rectifies that).
    the car never runs on the ice alone. the ice can only be engaged WITH the battery power - this is euphemistically called 'sport' mode.
    the combined propulsion produces about 405 bhp, and 959 lb/ft of torque (yes that is the actual figure).

    if you add the updated module, and the higher rated 650 A fuse, the 0-60 times drops from about 6 seconds to around 5 seconds.
    but this is not a drag monster. not designed to do that at all.
    however, the torque is monster, and that helps the car do very well between 50-79 or 60-80 or 70-90. i drove it with a heavy foot back from fort worth last week and achieved some respectable velocity, and there was nice acceleration above 50mph.

    the revero can be serviced by karma dealers - which there are not many of.
    the fisker can be serviced by karma dealers (somewhat begrudgingly), and the handful of former fisker techs, who you can find on fiskerbuzz.com . i can tell you who is closest to you if you tell me where you are located.

    this car is about individuality, design, and style. everything else was compromised in order to maintain high levels of the former.
    but i can honestly tell you that i love the car.
     
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  12. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    #37 davidoloan, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    How does the 4 cylinder run when its charging. Does it run at a set rpm or run through a rev range?

    I would hate a diesel of any kind; you just have to listen to low rpm clatter of the best of them. Its not really in keeping with the design.

    However, I always wondered why this car didn't have a nice engine, even though its function is different, something like the 1.6 litre BMW straight six which BMW make for their motorbikes.

    This car though flawed appeals to me in a way no Tesla does. After all very little of the energy produced to run a Tesla is clean, and the Fisker made a real attempt to solve the range issue using the technology of its time, so that even if long journeys were rare for the buyer, they could any time they wanted.

    Its also a great body design. I was interested to see a Tesla Model S when they were introduced and didn't realise one was parked outside my neighbours house every Sunday for months. I thought it was a Mazda 6. Wouldn't make that mistake with a Fisker, and while its a design of its time, influenced I'm sure, I don't see it as a Maserati rip off, as the Mayor said . There is some Bez era Aston Martin in it, but then it comes from the hand of Henrik Fisker, so fair enough.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    Like taking a nice old rotary engined car and putting Corvette engine in it.
     
  14. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    Does it need that large amount of power to charge the batteries? Is the engine matched to cars needs, or just what was available? (lots of more desirable small engines from the motorbike world)
     
  15. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    no idea why that engine was used. all the normal car parts are sourced from gm, and this car was brought to market with helpf from the feds, and gm was owned by the feds at that time, so i imagine thats where the link came from.

    the engine runs when you click the left hand paddle and put it into sport mode. this mode uses both the battery and the engine to power the generator that turns the electric motors. the gas engine will vary its rpm depending on the needs required by the generator, which does nto always correlate to how deeply you have pressed the accelerator. at first this is somewhat disconcerting, but you get used to it.
    the after market module you can buy, allows the ice unit to charge the battery up to 45 miles of range instead of just maintaining the range at 27 as it does normally. it also includes another setting that allows the ice engine to run at a reduced but steady rpm in the background which greatly increases the efficiency of it.
     
  16. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Fisker is a waste and will fail again
     
  17. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    henrik fisker designed this car in about 2008. he had previously designed the z8 and the db9 and the vantage. you can see the derivations of his hand in the rapide, which is the only 4 door car that approaches the sexiness of the karma.
    the maserati qp from 2004 is a beautiful car, and very sexy, but line these up side by side and you will see that the karma is far more sensuous. but this also carries a degree of impracticality since the rear seats and trunk are small. the karma qualifies as a subcompact because of the volume of the passenger area - to give you an idea.
     
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  18. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    it is now a KARMA. fisker is on to other things.

    and, i suspect you have not seen, ridden, or driven one. but everybody's tastes are different.
     
  19. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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  20. JOEA2

    JOEA2 Formula Junior
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    I have a Fisker Tramonto, but that's a different animal.

    Joe
     
  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    interesting design. you can see the parts that he took on to the astons.
    henrik is a talented man.
     
  22. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    Ross- how many kw/h to charge your Karma o'nite/at home?
    What kind of charger do you have?
    TIA
    Tritone
     
  23. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i am still waiting to receive the 240 v charger from the seller - long story.
    in the meantime, i have found the oem 110v charger, 12A, to be a pos. so i wrapped it up for posterity, and then bought a unit from omni tech that charges at 110v at 16A. i stumbled into a super deal on this at about $130 (normal cost more like double that). it works great. it has helped me balance the batteries (i think).

    if you are not willing to take a chance on a cheap charger like this, i recommend the clipper creek.

    as to how many KW it takes, i guess it is loading at about 3kw per hour, and it is done in about 10 hours, so lets say 30kw.
    my guess on the cost is about $2.
     
  24. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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  25. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    nice car. its an early vin, so it is likely that you have the soft splines on the electric motors. thats not a deal killer, but can be a time bomb.
    you need to find out what operating system you are running on - 610, 615, 510, 520, 530, 535. 520 or 535 are acceptable, all others are bad or need to be reflashed to 520 or 535.
    you need to find out if all the recalls were done, what the service records are and where the work was done.
    original tires are old now, but not a deal killer - but dont be surprised at the front side wear.

    to have any peace of mind, you need to either get the car to a guy that has the fisker obd and can read the codes, or you get one of them to send you the unit and you read them back to him.

    i recommend you start exploring fiskerbuzz.com.
    there are some prickly characters over there, but the knowledge base comes from 'powersource' who has written the code in the new modules, 'fabulist' who thinks he knows some stuff, but probably does, and the number one guy on the board is joe ferrante known as fiskerphilly. i can also give you his tel number. very good guy - think brian crall but less gruff.

    the big issues are
    - battery life and balance - there are 15 batteries, and they can get out of charge balance and this will destabilize the power delivery and set off the cel. the codes will tell the tech which battery and then how much life is left - ie if there is a chance for reviving/coaxing the battery back to balance or not. you want this to happen since each battery is about 3-3.5k to replace.
    - the rdm splines. hardened, loctited, replaced?? this car has 959 lb/ft of torque and the early motors could sheer splines. 4.5 k
    - the ciu. it is placed in a vulnerable spot and can get water damaged. most of us have sealed all the areas around it. but replacing it is 2k min.

    the other stuff is relatively easy since it is mostly gm. but the muffler has a 100% failure rate - it is just a matter of time. but its fixable.
     

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