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430 Finding a faulty ABS/Wheel speed sensor

Discussion in '360/430' started by shifter, May 22, 2023.

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  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #26 Qavion, May 24, 2023
    Sorry, I somehow misread that as "don't" have. Yes, you have four.
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #27 Qavion, May 24, 2023
    I'm trying to understand the diagrams in manual...

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    Both S006-A and S006-B is labelled as Right Front Brake Wear Sensor. "-A" looks like a connector, but "-B" looks like an earth lug. Anyway, assuming there aren't two sensors on each wheel... disconnect the easiest connector.

    If possible, maybe you could take a photo of the connections.

    This diagram includes the wiring for the brake wear sensors (see top left pink wiring)

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/xyI3Gu7fTcnd2eLY

    There is only one other connector in the system (YA46). This is probably hidden behind the moisture seal in the forward luggage compartment.
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior

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    #28 shifter, May 24, 2023
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
    Interesting, and great diagram! Do you think disconnecting YA46 would have the same result as disconnecting the 4 brake wear sensors? I might try when I get home as it’s easy to access, right behind the master cylinder in plain view.

    Also, my brake pads have a lot of life left, so if the brake warning is from a sensor, it’s the sensor itself or a short somewhere.

    My scan tool should get here this weekend, hope to get more info from it.



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  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #29 Qavion, May 24, 2023
    I don't really understand that graphic in post #27. According to the wiring diagrams, disconnecting YA46 will remove the rear sensors from the circuit.
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #30 Qavion, May 24, 2023
    Note that the YA46 connector has a few other things going through it. I'm not sure what the result would be if you pulled the plug.

    e.g. ABS ECU input to OBD2 connector, CAN Bus data from ABS ECU.

    I wonder if this is causing your issues... i.e. a bent pin on that plug?
     
  6. Qavion

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    #31 Qavion, May 24, 2023
  7. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior

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    #32 shifter, Jun 29, 2023
    Thought I’d close this out and maybe help someone else with what I found.

    So to re-cap, brake warning light (Not abs light), E-diff, and manettino fault.

    Checked all pad wear sensors and brake fluid sensor (all normally open and no short to ground on all 5 sensors). This suggested something else was tripping it.

    Looked at live data and saw that the e-diff clutch had good pressure and good clamping pressure while driving. But to be sure, I bled the e-diff solenoid (was easy to do with Launch), no improvement.

    From the fault codes, one (C1360) was a part that came up (YAW sensor) when i ran the health check, but I was able to clear it with the tool and the live data showed values so I didn’t think too much of it (ha!)

    Checked many grounds, replaced battery, no improvement.

    Yaw sensor caught my attention again, so we picked-up a readily available used one and viola, faults cleared and is back to her old self. Apparently the values from the old sensor were out of range.

    Huge thanks to Dominic for walking me through the diagnosis!

    The Yaw sensor is a $600 Ferrari part, $450 Maserati part, and a $200 Alfa part…. Same part Bosch 46803379.



    Joe


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  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    #33 flash32, Jun 29, 2023
    Joe

    You are welcome .. I love to help..it gives me an opportunity to expand my knowledge as well.

    Thank you

    The f430 sensor is the same as the one in these cars

    FIAT IDEA (2003-2008)
    FIAT MULTIPLA (1998-2010)
    FIAT NUOVA PANDA (2003-2009)
    FIAT PUNTO FL.'03 (2003-2010)
    FIAT STILO BZ/DS (2001-2003)
    FIAT STILO F.L.L. 2003 (2003-2007)
    ALFA ROMEO 147 BZ/DS (2000-2010)
    ALFA ROMEO 156 M.Y.2002 BZ/DS (2001-2005)
    ALFA ROMEO 166 BZ-DS (1998-2007)
    ALFA ROMEO GT (2003-2010)
    LANCIA - TG MUSA (2004-2007)

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  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #34 Qavion, Jun 29, 2023
    I don't understand why you were getting the brake warning light. The wiring to the instrument cluster for the light is very simple. 4 brake wear sensors and a fluid level sensor provide an earth for the light. There are no computers involved. The manuals list what triggers the light.

    The Yaw Sensor is part of the ABS system. Despite the name "braking", electrically, these are completely different systems. (EDIT: other than connector XA/YA46 in the frunk. The Yaw Sensor wiring and the rear brake wear sensor wiring go through this plug. The brake warning and Yaw Sensor power wiring are 3 pins away from each other)
     
  10. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior

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    #35 shifter, Jun 29, 2023
    I can’t explain it. Must be some interaction between the circuits, or at least the warning light.

    But it worked


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  11. Qavion

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    #36 Qavion, Jun 29, 2023
    That's another strange thing. Even though the lights are next to each other, the ABS light is activated by a trigger on the CAN Bus (a digital signal from the ABS/ASR computer). The brake light is "analogue".
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    #37 flash32, Jun 29, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2023
    Ian,

    I looked at diagram while we were diagnosing issue and it didn't point to sensor due to like you said simple circuit to power light. That being said, I always wonder if the dashboard itself has a circuit that turns on lights based on other issues. I read somewhere that if you are having a issue with a abs module it will illuminate 3 lights on dashboard ( can't remember the exact lights or condition). That led me to believe the wiring diagram doesn't account for the internal circuit printed on dashboard. I am not use to having such a "smart" dashboard with a large number of data streams being interpreted in it. More used to have lots of modules ( window, lock, domelight, etc ) and each reporting faults.

    Would be nice to have a diagram of the printed board of dash
     
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  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #38 Qavion, Jun 29, 2023
    I suppose the dash might have the ability to turn on the brake warning light when the ABS light is triggered (but not the other way around). Maybe a diode in the dash circuit. It seems strange that it isn't mentioned in the manuals (at least not in the instrument section). I'll have to do some more reading.
     
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #39 Qavion, Jun 29, 2023
    Found this in the 360 manual (so perhaps common dash logic)....


    I assume EBD = electronic brake distribution system = ABS
     
  15. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    #40 flash32, Jun 29, 2023
    That would have helped ..lol

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  16. Qavion

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    #41 Qavion, Jun 29, 2023
    I've added a diode to my F430 and 360 diagrams...

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    The ABS light processing circuits in the instrument panel provide an earth, activating both ABS and brake lights. The instrument panel provides power for the lights. The brake warning light circuit won't put on the ABS light because of the diode.

    Yeah... something to look out for in the future.
     
  17. Qavion

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    #42 Qavion, Jun 30, 2023
    As Joe is not getting the ABS light, I don't think a link in the instrument panel would put on the brake warning light. This is still a mystery.

    Joe, does your ABS light work?
     
  18. shifter

    shifter Formula Junior

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    #43 shifter, Jul 5, 2023
    Yes, abs light works, comes on and goes off at start-up and when running the health check.


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