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FF PTU Design Flaw.

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by officeline, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. jac

    jac Karting

    Nov 4, 2005
    95
    Full Name:
    jack cohen
    +1 on a bad ptu. '12 17k. At the dealer now.
     
  2. Guilhermerossi1990

    Jan 8, 2020
    32
    Modesto, CA
    Full Name:
    Guilherme Rossi
    Mine is a 2016 with 17k~ miles too. It looks like they only last between 15-20k miles before they start giving problems. Are you paying the dealer for a new part or you have warranty?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,098
    33k miles from day 1 and no ptu issues
     
  4. Guilhermerossi1990

    Jan 8, 2020
    32
    Modesto, CA
    Full Name:
    Guilherme Rossi
    You lucky. Knock on the wood. This is the only problem I have with the FF. Sadly it’s a major design flaw as most of the Ferrari FF owners are having PTU issues, even some GTC4 as well. Too bad because it’s a great car.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    G. Pepper likes this.
  5. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    Guilherme, I appreciate the frustration you are facing with getting to grips with the PTU problem, but blind, emotional assertions such as the one you made above are not helpful.

    We have stats from Motob who was a service manager at Ferrari SF which shows that the PTU failure rate of his population of cars was 5% per annum. Other members of FChat have contributed a database which suggests that the failure rate is far lower than that.

    Either way, posting on multiple PTU threads and making wild claims that ‘most of the Ferrrai FF owners are having PTU problems’ clearly overstates the case.

    I appreciate your efforts to get to grips with the PTU engineering issues, but coming on here to disparage the design before offering a solution just adds noise. I’d love it if you could find a cost effective remedy for the PTU maintenance and repair and the FF/Lusso community will be indebted to you for it - but until you do, can you please keep the comments factual and constructive? Thank you.
     
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  6. Guilhermerossi1990

    Jan 8, 2020
    32
    Modesto, CA
    Full Name:
    Guilherme Rossi
    5% based on what? I know of 4 other Ferrari FF owners with the same PTU issue (total of 5 with mine) all diagnosed by Ferrari of San Francisco on the year of 2019 alone. If you don’t think this is a high number based on the amount of Ferrari FF’s in the Bay Area, we might be speaking different languages here. I posted on all Ferrari FF treads to keep everyone informed of the updates I’m doing with the FF. The admin of this forum should be the one in charged of merging these topics into one so everyone is on the same page, until then, I don’t see a problem sharing the progress with everyone. It’s an useful information for other Ferrari FF owners and contributes to pick everyone’s brain to work in conjunction to find a solution for this problem. I’m not sure if you even had the PTU issue or if you even own a FF, so instead of telling me what to post and what not, you should be trying to contribute to this forum and other FF owners.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  7. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    Sure, let’s call the admins in on this and ask them to merge the threads. It’s a great suggestion.

    Regarding the Ferrari SF data for 2019, that is new info so thank you for sharing. I don’t know what the Ferrari SF FF population is these days but at the time of Motob’s posting, it was 40 cars and the failure rate was 5% per annum. Clearly this has risen if the population has stayed constant. Even so, 12.5% is high but it’s still not ‘most’ as you describe it by any stretch of the imagination. So - yes, I agree that we are speaking different languages here.

    actually, I am contributing to the forum by asking you to make your valuable (and some not so valuable) contributions in the same place. It serves no use to keep multiple threads open on the same issue and it serves no use to make emotional and factually incorrect statements either.

    I haven’t had a PTU issue and I hope that I never do. I did my research on it before buying my FF so that I understood the risks and have contingencies in place in case it does go bad. You have my sympathy that your car has problems and, for sure, I will be annoyed if/when mine goes but I’m not going to rant about the poor design and slag off Ferrari for a fault which affects ‘most’ cars when it’s patently not true.
     
    timjen88 likes this.
  8. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2013
    748
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv

    WTF are you the the PTU police ? Nothing wrong with his posts IMHO.
     
  9. Guilhermerossi1990

    Jan 8, 2020
    32
    Modesto, CA
    Full Name:
    Guilherme Rossi
    Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. But it won’t productive to this forum my opinion vs your opinion if the number of bad PTUs are high or not. I do believe it’s a poor designed part because I removed it from my car, I literally work on all my cars and I can tell by a fact that the PTU for the FF is not designed to handle the amount of power that the engine generates. I was just hoping that Ferrari could correct this issue for future production GTC4 and eventually for FF owners, that’s all. Hope you have a good night.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    CLG likes this.
  10. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2013
    748
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv
    Good you had no issues, so now you can go away because this thread is about people who have PTU issues.
     
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  11. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    Really? Is that the best you can do? Telling me to get lost because I haven’t had a problem with my PTU yet?

    Anyone with an FF or V12 Lusso will have an interest in Guilherme’s work which is why I’ve been exhorting him to keep his findings and valuable knowledge gained in one place - we could end up with a PTU sticky if he succeeds in finding a fix. Having various bits of info scattered about 3 different threads will scotch any chance of that. As Guilherme suggested, I have asked the mods to merge the threads so at least we have a reference thread for the PTU and his fix as nobody has yet documented an attempt to fix the PTU.
     
  12. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2013
    748
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv
    I'm glad you are the forum organization police, the PTU police and the Ferrari engineering defense police.

    Why would "any FF or V12 Lusso owner" have an interest in his work because according to your logic it's fake news anyway ?

    You are so unbelievably self righteous, condescending and rude to Guilherme, but yet you have so much concern for all the other users. Sad.
     
  13. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    If you had actually bothered to read my other posts to Guilherme, you’d see that I have been unfailingly polite, appreciative and supportive of what he is doing. I have chosen to debate some facts with him and that is fine. Like gentlemen, we have agreed to disagree.

    Unfortunately, you have seen fit to wade in to this debate and the only rudeness and condescension around here is coming from your posts and no-one else’s.
     
  14. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula Junior

    Feb 25, 2013
    748
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Shiv
    I read your posts mate. Couldn't find anything of value in them or anything gentlemanly in your tone. Let's leave it at that.
     
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  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,098
    wide world of cars and miller motors have only seen 2 or 3 each.
     
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  16. FFantastic

    FFantastic Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 23, 2015
    792
    UK Riviera
    Having been on a number of events prior getting my FF and my Lusso V12 it struck me that Launch mode is used quite a lot to impress on the potential buyer the outright performance of these cars. These cars being the demos provided by the dealers. Also you often see on youtube FFs and Lussos being ragged by over excited iphone jockeys who have borrowed one for a test run.
    Obviously if you owned the car from new and collected it with minimum mileage on from the main dealer, treated it well and still had ptu issues then that is bad luck but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these ptu issues in the FF and Lusso are on cars that were ragged to death in the first 4 gears before everything had bedded in.
    Regular traffic light Grand Prixs and just giving it a pasting in 1 - 4rth because its not your car could well be the problem as the ptu is taking a lot of disproportionate punishment. Just a thought.
     
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  17. bobbyd

    bobbyd Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    714
    Given that each dealer sells relatively few FF's or Lusso's, a failure rate of even 5% overall is unacceptably high for any manufacturer, even for exotics. This is especially true as Ferrari's are driven relatively few miles annually - my guess is less than 5K/year for most of these vehicles.

    I was considering a used FF as prices have come down to reasonable levels. But after reading these threads no way will I touch one.

    This is a major transmission design flaw IMO. Ferrari should own up to it and handle it similarly to how Porsche handled the engine flaws in the 991.1 GT3 - extend factory warranty to at least 10 years and/or 50K miles on any issue related to the unit (in this case tranny).

    I feel sorry for current owners and IMO it will NOT help trying to sell one given the serious nature of this flaw.
     
    m5shiv likes this.
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,098
    Word there be any power in collecting signatures form fchat in a petition that we send to FNA?
     
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  19. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    Is it really? 5% means that we can expect a failure once every 20 years. There are plenty of other examples where the parts failure rate is much higher but nobody gets as vexed over it as they do the PTU. I think that’s because of the cost of the damn thing. Consider that a set of CCB rotors and pads is about the same as the PTU - but nobody expects them to last 20 years.

    I can’t see Ferrari redesigning the part any time soon. If they made the part available more cheaply, then the sting would be taken out of it and owners could relax more. It could be seen more as a consumable akin to the brakes than a major ownership issue which it’s presented as on this forum.

    all this furore reminds me of the grief over the early F1 actuators. There’s no engineering redesign - you just need to budget for periodic replacement.
     
    SAFE4NOW likes this.
  20. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    282
    The Netherlands
    why not get one with a New Power warranty? That way, you’re covered for the PTU.
     
    SAFE4NOW likes this.
  21. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2008
    744
    huntingdon valley PA

    exactly internal leak,,,,oil going into gear box and watering down the friction in the clutch packs.
     
  22. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2008
    744
    huntingdon valley PA
    what sucks is if you could disconnect the gear box close off .
    But not easy on this setup.
    Just like on gen 1 r8 u could change out the spindles and take out gear box and strap up temp sensor.
    and car becomes rear wheel drive and no more front. gear box.
     
    Guilhermerossi1990 likes this.
  23. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner Advising Moderator Honorary

    Mar 21, 2004
    14,801
    Northern CA
    Full Name:
    Yin
    Users should not cross-post the same content into multiple areas, there's a rule specifically about that.

    Merging the 4 threads was not the right suggestion, two threads were initially different issues that later had users posting about PTU failures after the threads had gone idle, the other two threads were initially about PTU failures and were merged. Posts relevant to PTU failure moved into the one thread, duplicate posts deleted.

    Oh, and let's knock off the bickering.
     
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  24. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2013
    4,798
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Guilherme, could you explain what you mean by "1) engaging reverse at no acceleration ......"? Thanks!

    1) engaging reverse at no acceleration makes the transmission fluid to overflow the plastic reservoir and caused is to leak all the fluid through the breather cap on the reservoir itself.
     
  25. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    1,844
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I had a 1 meter puddle under the rear of my car. It was the morning after a day of aggressive driving. Is the repair a more upgraded part or do I have to worry about this happening again in 33k miles

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
     

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