News

Ferrari's at Scotsdale '17

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2011
    6,672
    virginia usa
    I really like that cAr no expert but I thought it would be a fine car. Was not a fan of the goodings Dino's and bidding reflected that....
     
  2. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2014
    3,163
    NOLA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Larry, you need one - they are right up your alley!
     
  3. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,805
    I totally agree with Marcel about this awful carpet in the Biltmore rooms - but their rooms are no better....!
    And yes, while Max Girado was a very charming guy on the podium the new chap of RM still needs to learn! For me Charlie Ross is the best!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  4. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,221
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Thanks to everyone for sharing information. I was just wondering if there is a preferred auction house for either Ferrari or Porsche? It seems to me Barrett Jackson is pretty good for American muscle but not so much for foreigh exotics?
     
  5. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2013
    774
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Greg P
    B-J 1381 1971 Ferrari 365GTB/4 Daytona Straman Spider Rep. 13941 $575,000

    Was this that yellow Daytona Spyder they had on their website? $575 seems low? Was it in bad shape?
     
  6. Parnelli

    Parnelli Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 30, 2013
    774
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Greg P
    And I realize it was a conversion......but $575K seems low
     
  7. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,691
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce

    RM, goodings and Bonhams.
     
  8. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 26, 2006
    2,835
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Geno
    So which of the two 365 BB's needed a full resto? Both or just the red one?


    QUOTE=cnpapa24;145170758]Black one. The red one had many things incorrect.[/QUOTE]
     
  9. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,698
    the red plexinose daytona at gooding lot no. 119 appears to be very nicely done. anybody see it in person?
     
  10. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    Yeah, I think the stratos did well, especially in light of many other cars seemingly struggling (none of the four Daytonas sold from what I know). The result even more impressive in euro or sterling. The Stratos market is decidedly non-U.S. (interest here unfortunately falls well short of the historical significance and terrific driving experience of the Stratos) so the U.S. dollar isn't he currency of choice. Having said that, $450k or 425k euro is still a steal for what's one of the winningest (of not THE winningest) Ferrari-engined car. Curious if it's staying in the U.S. or going overseas...
     
  11. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2014
    3,163
    NOLA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    The black one needed a full restoration. Perhaps the red one too, though I was not interested in it.
     
  12. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2014
    3,163
    NOLA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    There was a lot of interest in the car.
     
  13. secretcollector

    secretcollector Karting

    Aug 4, 2013
    123
    The Motor City
    The only two cars commented upon anywhere in this thread that I am qualified to discuss are the 993 GT2's (yellow at RM and silver at Gooding). The yellow was a C/C+ car if you're being generous and never should have been presented at auction in its present state. The silver was a B+ car in a fair color with Komfort seats (95% of prospective buyers want the standard lightweight bucket seats) and did about the right money for what it is.

    Overall, the media does a great disservice to anyone following the auction market in this way: sale prices are reported (or high bid no-sales) against estimates, but rarely is commentary added about the estimates themselves. You must keep in mind that securing a consignment for RM, Gooding, Bonhams (I'll stick with those three since they dominate the high end of the market) is a competitive business for them. Estimates are something like 70% what they must agree to in order to win the deal, and only maybe 30% what their experts feel they can sell the car for. Believe me, they would all like to have 100% sell-throughs and take cars in with the lowest possible estimates (and corresponding reserves or at no reserve) but consignors won't go for that. So, estimates are usually too high and when you then compare the hammer price to even the low estimate, the immediate natural reaction is "that car didn't do very well". E.g. - if car X is estimated at $1.5-2M but we (as expert market pundits of course) all know that similar examples of car X have been trading at $1M recently, and car X then sells at a hammer of $1.1M, it's a great result other than when compared to its estimate.

    The second major issue, and this has been touched upon in this thread, is the relative lack of quality and rarity at these sales. There are simply too many cars in the market now and for many months past. It happens in every cycle when you are at or near the top - owners see sale prices much higher than they imagined, put their car into the market and all of sudden, you go from under supply to over supply very quickly. And, the cars making up the over supply aren't that special or that good. I am very confident that if any of the big three houses goes to Amelia Island with half of the lots they normally would (say 60 instead of 120) and those 60 are all fresh to the market, A/A+ examples of rare and desirable cars, they will sell 95%+ and at very strong money.

    Finally, to echo a comment that Marcel made earlier, results are also hampered by the presentation of individual cars. It never ceases to amaze me how a $1M+ or even $500,000+ car is consigned with so many easily remedied faults left untouched. No matter how much money and/or desire a bidder has, that person is likely to pay a whole lot more for a perfectly prepared and presented car than one that still needs sorting.
     
  14. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    76,286
    Vegas baby
    This thread reminds me of the great irony of Fchat

    1) Should I buy car "X" from dealer "Y"?

    Answer: Not without a PPI!!!!

    2) Should I buy car "A" in auction "B"?

    Answer: Sure! The photos look nice!
     
  15. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,104
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    If you are well known to the auction house, most everything is possible, I know many people attended Duemilla Route with their personal mechanics to check lots they were interested in. I would imagine that for many lots you could get a thorough inspection done although the elite lots might be a different story? I will be fascinated to know what others with direct experience think.
     
  16. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    889
    They are fantastic cars to drive ( and own) specially the group4 version with original race history...and if you think about racing pedigree, value for money, excitement on driving on winding roads or even better on snow and ice with winter tires, I am surprised that people are not fighting more on them. Reasons are it is a European significance ( world rally championship in spite of name,,is a Europe event) , reputation of being hard to drive ( all legend from people who never drove one, no better car to drive in full opposite lock but non race drivers don't like driving sideways,,) and difficulty to assess history ( so many fakes and road cars converted to Alitalia livery).
    I drove 2 times Tour Auto and the recent Stratos celebration organized by Erik Comas, and it is always a feast to drive this car which feels so modern and was conceived from day one to be a race car.
     
  17. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2011
    6,672
    virginia usa
    Funny that's what the goodings Rep said....
     
  18. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2011
    6,672
    virginia usa
    I looked at it the car presented very nice did not verify numbers wasn't really interested but it looked pretty good.
     
  19. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2014
    3,163
    NOLA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    This is why understanding the car behind the price is of the utmost importance if it is to be used as a datapoint in the market. Too many people blindly assess value based on the most recent auction results without understanding where the car falls in the condition / quality scale.
     
  20. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    I am dying to try a gr.4! I've only driven a stradale...
     
  21. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    6,966
    In terms of condition I preferred the silver alloy 2cam, the green 4cam is starting to show its age a bit IMO.
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    50,509
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I was dead on from 10 days ago.
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,189
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Spot on.
     
  24. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,221
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    The difference is at an auction someone else is competing for the car and reason is often abandon in the heat of competition a mysterious phenomenon known to auctioneers. This phenomenon also occurs on EBay but to a lesser decree. In that case the buyer only has a nice picture and can’t even personally inspect the car.

    We have had a couple of threads on Fchat where the buyer over the internet was disappointed with the vehicle having done little investigative work and is then disappointed with the result – go figure?
     
  25. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2014
    3,163
    NOLA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Estimates were optimistic, but sell through was in the mid to high 80% range.
     

Share This Page