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Ferraris at KENO Bros. Auction NY 19 November 2015

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Marcel Massini, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    Nov 12, 2012
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    Was there, dont understand. There wherw good bids, but no sale. The Lambo GTR, high bid 825.000 (!) low est. 850.000 - no sale. F40 bid close to the est., no sale. The Comp. Daytona, 4,8 mio. And no sale...

    All aroumd it was the best Auction, well presented, good Cars, but...
     
  2. 375+

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    I got 17 sold out of 39 lots. A disaster.
     
  3. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
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    Ben
    Regards
    Ben
     
  4. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2015
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    18 to 22 out of 40
    Ben
     
  5. 300GW/RO

    300GW/RO Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2010
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    Jack


    questions than answers as mentioned....a few cars did get thisclose to low resv but never crossed....evidence of shill bidding I guess..no real money on the car(s) as house bid close to reserve in the hope of spurring-on a real buyer. dreadful really

    Jack
     
  6. 375+

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    There were 39 lots in the sale, one scratched. I have lot 39 Lamborghini as a No Sale.
     
  7. 375+

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    Lot 1 the Miura S was a steal IMO.
     
  8. 375+

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    Ben,

    I get 18 out of 39, I think that Lot 139 was a No Sale.
     
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #35 Marcel Massini, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    Timing question, amongst others (perhaps not enough $$$ invested in marketing campaign?). In September 2015 RM Sotheby's initially announced their New York auction for this week November. This led Leigh and Leslie Keno to set their own auction for 19 November, thinking that two major car auctions in NY in the same week would be ideal for potential buyers and a trip to NY. However, RM Sotheby's then changed their own date and postponed their auction to December 10, the Keno Bros did not know or heard about the date change way too late, in order to change their own sale date as well.
    Regarding the Ferraris available last night at the Keno sale:
    The semi-official Comp Daytona #12467 has been on the market for more than a year now. Clearly way too high expectations. The Daytona #14229 and the 250 GTE #3547 GT have also been on the market for a very long time already. Probably also too high expectations. The F40 #85336 had a number of things no longer original. The black 212 ex Prince Bernhard #0269 EU has a rather complicated story with three chassis numbers (0139 E, 0269 EU and 0387 GT). This car too has been to at least three auctions in the past 7 years and was always a no sale. 0269 EU needs a full restoration and because of the chassis number issue a proper factory certification with full red book and a chassis number re-identification is absolutely necessary to make things clear for all and everybody. Without that it will remain virtually impossible to achieve a proper result. Before you can earn, you have to invest.
    I did like the Keno Bros. website, very well done, much better than the one of competitors. Also, the amount of research that the Kenos undertook is remarkable. This compared to other auction houses.

    Additionally: How many big classic car auctions with high end Ferraris does the world really need? Every month there is such an auction, sometimes even two or more. Seems to me that people are a bit tired of auctions. It is also increasingly difficult to find fresh and really good, outstanding Ferraris that haven't been available on the market in the past 3 or more years. The exceptional classic Ferraris are all in very good and very firm hands with guys that just don't need any money at all. Why sell? And where can you re-invest the $$$ and what can you buy? Second and third tier stuff only. There is nothing exceptional around anyway. Quite a number of the Ferraris offered this year at auctions have had number issues (non matching engines) and the year isn't over yet.

    Just my 2 cents, of course.

    Marcel Massini
     
  10. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Big time! Definitely the buy of the sale.
     
  11. BBBBBBB

    BBBBBBB Formula Junior

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    Sure 18 to 21. No Number 137 there, last number is 140. My data had an double result. Sorry.
    Ben
     
  12. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    Thanks to Marcel.
     
  13. Foncool

    Foncool Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2011
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    One other thing that should not be overlooked is the Auctioneer, he could have put people to sleep even if they drank 3 Red Bulls.
     
  14. 300GW/RO

    300GW/RO Formula Junior

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  15. barchetta

    barchetta Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Wasn't in the room, but heard very similar feedback from a close friend who was at the auction last night. Gooding and RM have the best in the business when it comes to auctioneers.
     
  16. philt68

    philt68 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
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    new york city
    +1

    i think steal of the century was the toyota 2000gt-$610k, when they're normally around a million...
     
  17. philt68

    philt68 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
    953
    new york city
    my sense is that we're being served the same meal at every auction-a daytona, an f40, a couple of astons, a dino for garnish, then maybe for the main course, a couple of unusual ferraris, and something low mileage....it's time to change the recipe...
     
  18. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
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    #45 sltillim, Nov 20, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
    I was just going to post this. I did watch the live stream for a while and it was painful. I enjoy a good auction. This should not sound like one of the auctioneer verbal cadence like Mecum - these cars deserve something better. I love Max at RM and the gent at Gooding. Though a Brit, this guy droned on and on worse then my 3" subaru exhaust on a road trip. He was very monotone and not interesting. The job of the auctioneer is to encourage spending and be an entertainer at the same time.

    There seemed to be some arguments and dependencies on stage about which number lot number was up between the car announcer and auctioneer. The microphones were on at weird times. Technically this did not go well. It is their first event. I would go with a new "event technical staff" next time.

    The cars were not in the room which took away from the excitement. It was also very dark and '70's feeling atmosphere (though I was only watching online).

    It was cool seeing the car experts come up and discuss the vehicles. The car videos were good online as I watched them before the event.

    All in all - very little seemed to sell, unless deals were struck after the hammer drop that we don't know about. It was not a well polished event. online media were cool to see the backdrop of some of the cars. Either it was the wrong time, wrong people, the reserves were too high or they just didn't get the word out well enough. It does not really follow what we have seen in the marketplace or perhaps the market place is changing.

    From a not very experienced business man, I would have waited for August to launch in Monterey - this might have gone very different.


    Oh well, just my .02
     
  19. 375+

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    Welcome to the NFL.
     
  20. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    So true!
    However one of the brothers had worked at Sotheby's for MANY years while the other was a private dealer in high end American furniture and works of art also for many years.
     
  21. leeber

    leeber Karting

    Dec 21, 2012
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    Charleston, SC
    i was there for the Nov 18 symposium and the Nov 19 auction. I thought it was great having Tom Yang serving as a specialist. In reading the previous posts, am I to believe Marcel M.'s comments are first hand accounts? If so, this is now the 3rd or 4th time I have been at the same event, and his aura has eluded me. Not sure what he looks like, but his words resonate. With the highest of respect, I would love to hear him as a panelist someday speak of how he became such a great historian, how he gathered his sources, and whether there is an apprentice somewhere to continue educating the next generation of owners.
     
  22. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    I commented to my wife that the lambo race cars had street tires which seemed odd. An obviously drunk man with an official badge informed me that the cars came from arab gulf countries where they are street raced. Not sure if he should have admitted to that but I found it interesting. The bartender was serving stiff drinks though
     
  23. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie
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    He definitely was not a good choice. Marcel's assessment is right on...

    Geno


     

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