Ferraris and crash safety

While I would rather be in a Benz when that happens, no car can protect you 100% of the time, and I would have to say that thing hit something very hard.

 

Try to find out what the conditions of that crash were; maybe you can e-mail the site where you obtained the pics. My educated guess is this: that car looks like it hit another car head-on with a total impact (speed of two cars approaching each other combined) of over 100 miles per hour. Any car will be totalled after such impact.

I've actually heard that our cars ("our" meaning our old school Ferraris) are built like "brick s#hithouses"...

 

The only thing that really scares me about crashing a Ferrari is that they have fire-issues. Every time i hear about a Ferrari crash, usually 348 on up, it invloves the car lighting up in flames afterwards. It seems like a smart decision for any Ferrari owner to carry a fire-extinguisher on board at all times.

 

Though a fire extinguisher is never a bad idea I have been in the Ferrari business a long time and am not aware of a higher than normal crash related fire-issue. I am personally aware of many that have been in bad crashes and know of several body shops in the area that are full of crashed Ferrari's that did not burn. Ferrari fuel tanks are made of a very malleable grade of aluminum that I have seen on two occasions crushed like a Bud can and did not leak a drop. One was a customers Daytona that was sitting stopped at a light on a highway and rear ended by a semi estimated to be going 50 when he hit. No fuel leakage, no fire. The other was a 308 QV that slid sideways into the end of a gaurdrail at high speed right into the fuel tank. Both occupants were killed. I was involved as an expert in the case and when I inspected the car the fuel tank was still full of gas. Aside from rotten fuel hoses or leaking carbs, fires just aren't all that common.

 

Badly crashed my GT4 6 months ago when it aquaplaned in heavy rain after hitting standing water. The car spun thru 2 x 360s and then hit an embankment at 55mph which flipped it into the air (about 10-12') and rolled twice .

This totally destroyed the car and put me in hospital for some weeks. My wife and 9yo son were in the car as well and luckily for a change my boy was sitting behind his mother as their side was basically intact and they walked out of the car with minor bruises to my wife and no damage to my son (but the psychological trauma is still high in his mnd).

The '74 GT4 hit the drivers A pillar twice and this caved the roof in on the drivers seat but "fortunately" my head was thrown out the side window and hit the road fracturing the skull in 3 places.

I was inspecting the car very closely on the weekend and the thing that "impresses" is that cars from that era are made stronger but do not absorb the impact I wish it had as I would be in better condition if it was the BMW I was driving instead.
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WOW! Im glad that everyone made it out of it fine, ur life is worth more than a car by far.

 

That's interesting because I can think of several accidents in the last couple years which involved 355s and 360s catching fire. Yet I can't remember a single accident involving a 911 catching fire, although I'm sure it must happen once in a while. Last time I checked, there were a lot more 911s than 355s and 360s on the roads and they're certainly driven a lot more. From my own observations at least, the mid-engine Ferrari is something of a fire trap.

 

John,

Nice to see that you and your family are intact...

 

I think of this everytime I pull out of my driveway. I dred the thought of getting hit in my 308. Where I live, it is only two-lane roads with drunks and plenty of deer (The deer are seldom drunk). I know if I get in a head-on, even at slower speed (35-50), I'm gonna get hurt pretty bad.

 

Oh my god! How did your head heal? Glad your wife and kid are ok. I have a rollbar in my car, but sometimes think a helmet would be necessary in our wonderful CA traffic.

 

well guys, the one thing this accident has done for me is to seriously consider a rollbar for the 328 I am planning on getting very soon.

Also I am looking to lower the drivers seat and fit a full race harness and as stupid as I will look, I am going to wear a helmet (stylish of course) as the windscreen in a 328 GTS is VERy close to the noggin in the event of an accident.

My head has had several ops to put some skin back over the skull and feels very fragile as I had a thick head (some say I still have ) and plenty of hair for an old fella but the veneer is even thinner now with thigh skin replacing the scalp (ouch!!)

I strongly suggest anyone with a 308/328gts have a long look at the vicinity of the windscreen in relation to your head and imagine that hitting you in he event of an accident, scary, hence the helmet use for me from now on.

Seatbelts are compulsory here in Oz and although they save lives and did in this case as well, what is less documented is that they break the chest bones pretty much like doctors need to do for heart surgery, takes 4-6 weeks to heal to the stage you can breathe without pain (I am the living proof seatbelts save your life). Another amazing thing regarding seatbelts is that my son in the backseat only had a lap belt and was totally unscathed while my wife was only bruised from the hitting of the side of the car and she never even hit the window.

They cut the roof off as is the case with head/neck injuries and I can remember coming to and hearing the fire brigade dude saying to the paramedics "it's a Ferrari, are you sure you want me to cut the roof off ?"

I just yelled out "get me out of this <beep beeping> thing now!!"

Another surprising thing is that the car doors still open and lock...like I said, they made the car to survive and the people perish but todays cars are so much better made for occupant survival with the crumple zones and airbags and I put this down to the consumer demand from our US cousins demanding betetr protection from the cars when the primary safety has failed..thanks

 

Please notice that i did say usually later model cars, 348 on up, that i notice have the fire-issues. I didn't say anything about earlier cars such as the Daytona and 308.

 

When cars crumple, they absorb energy rather than transfer it to the driver's neck (no HANS device in steet cars).

The wheels are typically outboard of the pedals, and mid-engine Ferraris have only weakly attached footwell dividers, so pushing the tire around might turn the driver so he can be removed head first, rather than crush legs.

Ferraris do tend to crumple up in front or rear crashes, but leave the driver.

And Ferraris are very good at dodging.

Hit any car in the fuel tank, and you risk fire. 3x8s have two tanks, so twice the risk of hitting one in a side impact.

As for 911 fires ... well the media flocks to burning Ferrari stories. Are we to believe that no 911s were lost in the FL hurricanes, or that the media turned the cameras on the Ferrari (or Ferrari-looking) cars, instead? (Can a reporter relegated to "rain man" duty tell a real one from a fake?) (Get a shot of the wrecked Farari -- I'm an excellent reporter, an excellent reporter. )

 

I hope you are paying that fire brigade dude's theorepy (sp?) sessions , John

Pete

 

I don't know about his therapy but if I don't get back on a track soon I think I will lose my nerve putting the car into lurid slides in corners

It's amazing, I took the BMer out the other night on a deserted roundabout adn turned the ASC off to have a bit of fun and see if I still had the ability to throw the car around but the accident has taken the fine edge off my car control as I'm sure my sub-conscious is still in stay-alive mode

btw Pete, do you work anywhere near Crown St near the Ford dealership ?

there is a place called modena motors which has a 328 I am really interested in if you want to meet up for a test drive

 

Ferrari road cars are not safe. They don't even come close to the safety of Porsche, let alone Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo, Audi, etc.

I know 2 people who used to work for Ferrari, and both say that despite them being sold as road cars, all Ferraris are basically race cars, and from a safety point of view, should stay on the track. Want to survive a serious crash in a Ferrari? Have plenty of runoff, a racing harness and a helmet. The bottom line is they are designed to be fast and nimble, not survive accidents road cars are commonly involved in.

Another thing they said was that when looking at the construction of the vehicles, there's no comparison between the build quality of cars like Porsche/Mercedes/BMW and Ferrari. Ferraris are obviously hand made, with passion, care and attention to detail, yes, but hand made nonetheless. Ultimately this has a major influence on the ability of Ferrari road cars to cope with serious street crashes.

Whether Ferrari plan on changing their levels of safety in the future, I don't know. But all Ferraris from the 360 Modena and earlier have serious safety issues compared with the safety standards of other European car manufacturers.

 

Having had a front-end crash in a 328, I can attest to the fact that the cars are built like tanks. I had a goofball in a brand-new Chevy S-10 pull in front of me at an intersection, and I T-Boned him right at his front axle at about 40 MPH. The force of the impact spun my 328 around, clipping the rear of the car - right at the fuel tank area. The force of the collision completely closed the triangular vent opening, and ripped holes in the steel when the metal could bend no more. The front impact collapsed the front of the car like an accordian, shoving the entire bodywork inward a full six-eight inches. Impact forces on the unibody caused changes in the dimensions of the targa top area, causing a wider roof gap on the drivers side and a narrower gap on the passenger's side. Needless to say, the car was a total loss. I did have a ruptured radiator, but no gasoline leak or fire/explosion.

I had ZERO injuries - in fact, I felt little of the impact with the other vehicle other than the sudden stop. The doors still opened and closed fine, and the engine/gauges still worked.

 

admiral thrawn

can you provide any data links to support your worrisome conclusions?

i, for one, would not own a ferrari if it were not at least as safe as a porsche. i look forward to your futher information.

 

ignacio, respectfully, I hate to see you scared off a Ferrari by unscientific musings. Remember "unintended acceleration?" I take my daughter in my Stradale; I take my wife in my Stradale; I take my Stradale to the track. It's just silly and IMO slamderous (typo, but I like it) to make unsupported statements that Ferraris are more vulnerable to fire, or less crashworthy, than comparable cars. I'd suggest to you that ANY crash in a Ferrari will receive more attention that any crash in a Porsche - that's schadenfreude (sp?), among other things.

 

These stories about Ferraris,being inferior products in an accident are bull.My father is one of the most respected Auto Body Repairers in South Africa,with 44 years of experience here and in Italy aswell as Switzerland.From the 70's up until the late 80's,when the two official Ferrari agents Rosso Sport Auto and Viglietti Motors stopped supplying spare parts,I would go so far as to say all crashed Ferraris came to my father.Two of wich he bought as write-offs and fixed for himself a 78 308 GTB and a 83 308 GTSi.Both these cars were in MAJOR accidents.The GTB went through the barrier and down the slope of a mountain at roughly 80 mph,the GTSi came over a blind rise at 100mph only to find a nice fat 84 Mercedes crossing at the top,of wich it passed under the back of and out the other side.In both cases the drivers were unhurt.My father reckons that when the 308's were put on the chassis machine and connected to the 10 ton hydraulic dozer(a machine that will happily tear a BMW chassis apart) it just sat there ticking with out even straightening there chassis,thus 2 10 ton dozers were needed!!!These cars appeared in the Italian magazine Azzuro vol 4 No 39 October 1987.The front cover is my father and partner with the 308GTB,the mag has before and after pics.When talking to Piero Giovanneli,the chief mechanic and a Major share holder in Rosso Sport Auto, about this very topic he said ,"All my clients tell the insurances that the accident ONLY happened at 40mph,when in actual fact it was more like 100mph+" thus you get people starting a "Geez this is what happened at ONLY 40mph".Let me tell you that having spent all of my spare time in my short 20 years at a Auto Body Repair shop and seeing literally thousands of crashed vehicles,I can honestly say I will take a Ferrari in any situation and even then with the chances of survival in a head on, with a solid object at 70mph being a meezly 3%,only God can save you.

Marco

 

Let's recall that "built like a tank" and "has a strong tube frame that's hard to bend" are NOT modern terms associated with crashworthiness.

The driver's compartment should maintain structural integrity (unlike that Mondial that started this whole topic), while the rest of the body should deform in a major impact to absorb energy. Old cars (say, those that weren't cutting edge in the 70's) were designed such that the driver and belts absrobed all the energy. You're looking at decelerating your head and organs from "x" to 0 in inches rather than feet. Crumple zones, crumple zones!

 

"I know 2 people who used to work for Ferrari, and both say that despite them being sold as road cars, all Ferraris are basically race cars, and from a safety point of view, should stay on the track"

I don't know how true this statement is, and I too would be interested in seeing some tech to back it up.

Even so, properly restrained, I think I'd much rather be in a race car than in a street car if I were to be in an accident. I keep thinking of some of the horrific crashes I've seen in person or on TV in which the drivers walk away with only minor injuries. Remember Mario Andretti flipping an IRL car at 190+ MPH a year or so ago and walking away?

(I think he later said something like "If you don't walk back to the pits once in a while with a steering wheel in your hand, you're not trying hard enough")

-Gio P