Ferrari should offer N button on F1 steering wheels

Real-life F1 steering wheels on F1 cars all seem to have a green "N" button (N) to allow immediately engaging neutral on the transmission. IMO, this is very useful in many normal driving situations like avoiding throttle lift-off oversteer, and especially if an F1 transmission car is tracked or raced.

It should not be difficult to offer the N button on an "upgraded" steering wheel if the buyer/owner purposely wants it. I was considering longer aftermarket F1 paddles so I can more easily find both paddles to engage neutral but a button is a much cleaner solution. If the behaviour of the F1 transmission is that it will automatically match gears to vehicle speed whenever throttle is applied from neutral then there is little danger even if the button is accidentally pushed. The transmission would only go to neutral if you maintain pressure on the button. This would be a really neat feature as it restores one of the advantages of a fully manual transmission.

I found an older 2010 video where a Ferrari performance engineer explains one of Felipe Massa's F1 steering wheels - towards the end of the video, he mentions the function of the N button - F1 racers use this feature, probably more often than we think:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEvZFvNKNaY]Felipe Massa's F1 Steering Wheel from 2010[/ame]​

Also this 2011 webpage featuring a Mercedes video along with tagged descriptions of various buttons and switches on a Sauber wheel:

Why F1 steering wheels have over 20 buttons - and what they all do - F1 Fanatic​

And I guess this is all old-hat for gamers with high-tech simulators.

Thrustmaster Ferrari F1 Wheel Add-On for PC and PS3 | Playseat​

I really feel Ferrari should offer this option for owners. What do you think?

 

PROBLEM: yes, but you often cannot reach both paddles in the middle of a turn - very dangerous to try because you will mis-steer. That's probably why real F1 cars don't do it that way. McLaren street cars have paddles follow the steering wheel and so it's likely not a problem for the MP4-12C (or P1).

 

I think you misunderstood.

All the new Ferraris have F1 paddles and they engage neutral when both paddles are simultaneously pulled but because Ferrari F1 paddles stay fixed to the steering column while the steering wheel moves, you will not be able to grab both paddles quickly when you are in the middle of a turn and the tires suddenly slide out because of a patch of ice, oil, dirt or water, especially when the corner is banked "wrong".

The F1 paddles are quite small. Just lifting the throttle can cause the rear end to violently swing out when rear traction is lost. Going to neutral and steering into the slide is the best response on unpredictable road surfaces.

 

Chris, I guess you didn't read the hot link I made in my posting about avoiding throttle lift-off oversteer.

I was referring to situations where you hit black ice, an oil patch or some abrupt change in road traction in a corner or even along a straight stretch. This is not oversteer induced by too much throttle under normal road conditions, it due to abrupt complete loss of traction to either both or one rear wheel in a RWD vehicle. Your car will spin around in less than 0.5 second unless you immediately recover traction and steering.

No. Please read what I wrote in my above reply to Chris.

Again, I referred to "...many normal driving situations" and not necessarily racing conditions. You are driving normally and you hit black ice or oil...etc.

Yes, that is one benefit. But the true benefit is that it allows the back tires to roll freely, thus regaining traction in the back. And since I also steer in the direction of the spin, the front tires now begin to also roll with the road surface thereby recovering traction for the front tires as well.

If you do not have traction, you cannot have steering control and without steering and traction, you can never recover from a spin.

When you apply throttle after the spin has started and already lost traction, all you're doing is making the rear tires spin as fast as the drivetrain wants them to, without the benefit of traction. It is useless and actually makes it harder to regain traction and control.

Well, I think you also mis-read my postings and jumped to conclusions. Maybe you don't have black ice, frozen patches or have never hit an oily or greasy spot on the road

Again, the situations is where I am driving normally, in gear around a corner. I hit slippery patch and the car goes into a spin. This can also happen when you are going straight, if one wheel suddenly loses traction while the other one has normal traction. "Limited slip" differentials won't save you because this is not "limited slip" but abrupt TOTAL loss of traction.

*If* I lift off the throttle without also shifting into neutral, the results will only worsen the spin because of weigh shift to the front. Therefore, I also want to declutch and disengage the drivetrain from the back tires so they can roll freely instead of being dragged by the drivetrain. This must be done before the tail of the car has spun too far, before it overtakes the front end.

In an emergency recovery situation like this one, the only correct response is to declutch immediately and simultaneously steer into the spin. Your tires will recover traction and you can steer back on course and reapply throttle.

I hope you were just being flippant with your comments about driver's education - being rational and serious about driver's education are some of the reasons why German drivers are way better than the average driver over here and are trusted to drive with no speed restrictions on some Autobahns.

Oh, I see it's rcallahan again... Mr. Congeniality.

So, just how old are you, really? Well, not to worry, when you grow up you will learn you can also make yourself feel good by being polite to strangers.

Again, I think you also completely misunderstood what I posted. I think you need to read other people's posting more carefully before you post a reply.

If you have experienced black ice before you will understand what I mean. It does not matter how carefully you drive or plan a corner if you hit black ice or a patch of oil. When you hit black ice, the back end of your RWD car will abruptly lose traction and within 0.5 second, it can overtake the front end. You are not on the limit. You are way over the cliff. Your only chance to recover safely is to regain control before you come around 180° and beyond.

The main reason to go to neutral is to allow the tires to roll freely with the road surface - which is the exact meaning of REGAINING TRACTION... tires rolling with the road surface, not skidding over the road surface.

I tell you what. Next time it snows in your area, go out in your Fcar, find some traffic, a few pedestrians and your general roadside hazards. Then drive into a corner at a dry pavement pace and abruptly stomp on your throttle in the middle of the turn. Let's see if you really want to modulate your throttle as the rear end of your car heads towards the curb, pedestrians and a wall... all within less than a second.

We are not discussing a racing maneuver, or filming some YouTube video demo along a closed roadway for Top Gear magazine. There are possibly other cars nearby, pedestrians and roadside hazards. This is real life. You just want to recover traction and steering control. And if you were racing, you would just want to avoid a shunt off the course - it's no longer about trying to go fast.

Sorry Bas, while I find your explanations possible, they are also not entirely credible.

For starters, what do you mean by "...If they spin, they have 2 clutch paddles below the gear paddles. They only have to pull one..."? Are you saying the 2 clutch paddles do the same thing as the N button? What does that prove?

Anyway, I have another much, much, much bigger problem with your explanations. This is where your explanations break down completely. Have a look, here is a Sauber F1 steering wheel

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Here's an F1 steering wheel from BMW in 2009

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And one from Mercedes

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Finally, a Ferrari unit

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You will notice the N button is ALWAYS placed very prominently next to the driver's left thumb. This means it is placed to be most accessible to the driver and not require him to remove his hand to activate the button. In fact, I would say the N button appears to be prominently placed in such a universal location so as to be "MOST handy" and safely used while driving and steering.

IF, on the other hand as you "explained", the N button is "...only ever used when the car is put in the pit and wheeled back in, or when the car stops on track..." then it does not even need to be on the steering wheel - because under all the conditions you mention, his car is already stopped!

Again, I apologize but the circumstances, I cannot find your explanation credible at all.

*****

OK, while I find it interesting and somewhat fun to correct your misunderstandings and somewhat off-hand comments. This is verging on the ridiculous. Please make sure you read the postings carefully, check your thoughts, your motivations for posting and your facts before commenting further.

I make an effort to explain logically and back up my assertions so please try to be as considerate. Thank you and good night - thank God it's a long weekend!

 

Well, I think if you really believe and understand your claims, you would prove them with an explanation. Since you decline and decide to have a drink, I think you've said it all.

I am trying to be useful to Ferrari car owners and anyone who likes to drive well. I would honestly like to have the feature of the N button in my own car. I am not trying to put down or insult anyone. I am simply defending and explaining my assertion; and I know I am doing a very good job of it.

I will show you ultimate proof in my next message below.

 

Actually didimao0072000, it appears the F1 teams and "Thousands of car engineers" beat me to this idea long ago. But I don't think anyone's patented such an idea. Shown below is a "screen shot" I scraped off the official F1 website blurb on the F1 Steering Wheel.

Notice the yellow highlighting I made actually says, and I quote F1's statement "...the 'neutral' button (vital for taking the car out of gear in the event of a spin)...".

Switching to neutral is a very classic and well-worn maneuver known to any serious driver who knows how to drive a car with a stick-shift transmission. And is especially useful for people like me who live in sometimes severe Winter conditions.

Unfortunately, "driver education" or lack therefore in North America, has allowed new drivers to get their licenses in automatic transmission vehicles. I was one of these unfortunate souls. I even had to teach myself how to drive at night, on/off the highways and with a stick-shift transmission. I did all that myself using rented cars and in the last case, with my girlfriend's VW Beetle, which she conveniently forced me to ferry for her.

I hope you appreciate what I am trying to do. Tearing someone down just to feel superior is not a good thing for you or your intended victim. When I started this thread, all I did was propose an idea. I don't get any kicks from demeaning other people.
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