Ferrari SCARED to face Audi in Le Mans Prototype racing.

Obviously, I wasn't going to spend much time checking the facts (so don't take them literally), but based on your numbers, the LMP cars do about 90% of an F1 season (in Kilometers) in 24 hours without scheduled stops for anything more than tires, fuel and driver change. As far as 15H v. 24H is concerned, that's a full 60% longer lifespan. And, the LMPs are supposed to do it all with the same components (although the newest quick-change gearboxes and such makes it possible to switch some major components in-race). Whereas, the F1 components don't need to last anywhere near as long. Clearly, the F1 guys are trading-off durability for absolute power and could possible de-tune their technologies to gain life, but endurance racing is also a different skill/mindset than is F1. I'm not saying Ferrari can't/wouldn't/won't be successful in long-distance, endurance racing, but they're focused on high-speed sprints at the moment. And, while Michelotto has carried the marque's badge forward nicely, they simply aren't spending the same as are Audi or Peugeot.

CW

 

While that used to be the case, it's no longer true. Outside of a tub getting destroyed they may very well run the same one all year. [Seb's "Kinky Keily" should last the season for example.]

Cheers,
Ian

 

will be interesting when VW aquires an interest in Ferrari.

 

ferrari is depressed after news about future F1 directions: 4 cylinders, only 1.6 litre , big turbo and lame sound

 

It's funny Mcnish is the one saying it requires precise decision making when he clearly made a very bad one in less than 60mns of racing..

 

Lol, post of the year!!

 

Let's not forget that Audi dominated Grand Prix racing before either F1 or Ferrari existed.
There is no doubt that if F1 was their primary objective, they could be successful if given the necessary time and resources. Similarly, If Ferrari were to re-direct their attention to Endurance Racing, they could likely recapture some of the glory of bygone days. It seems that endurance racing is more in line with German engineering spirit and Sprint racing (F1) appeals more to the Italian temperment.

I could see the latter happening if Ferrari ever made good on their threat to pull out of F1.

 

I think you meant Auto Union but that is just splitting hair's.

 

I do, as Audi is the sole remaining automobile maker of four member Auto Union (Audi, DKW, Horch and Wanderer). Audi existed on its own before the Union in '32 having been founded in 1909 by August Horch who was not allowed to use his own name.

http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/about/main/history.html

 

I have to admit I have a growing fascination for the Audi and Puegot turbo-diesel monsters. They have a Panzer-like toughness that must be respected and they are seriously fast. Without limitations, the mind boggles as to what TDI tech could do, although of course they have already had to reduce the displacement of the diesels to give the petrol cars more of a chance.

Quite honestly, a large part of the reason I haven't watched Le Mans much since about 2000 is that the cars haven't been interesting. I don't find open top Le Mans sports cars particularly sexy and they were choked down by stricter and stricter rules, not to mention Le Mans itself was toned down in the name of safety. But these closed cockpit LMP-1s have a spacecraft like quality that I find appealing.

Also, I got to drive a pump-up turbo-diesel truck recently with about 400 HP and 800 ft-lbs. The sound it made under accel wasn't too different from the Audi R18s, allowing me to have a little fantasy moment. Still, I much prefer to hear a screaming petrol engine, turbos are fine too. I'd like to see Ferrari to return, but it would be massivley expensive and a distraction from the Jeweled Crown of motorsport, so I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm still disappointed Ferrari never put their weight behind the F40, F50, or Enzo for Le Mans, but at least they've really developed the other cars like never before in recent years. Since the new "F70" is going back to a twin-turbo V-8, maybe we'll see a GT1 equivalent?

 

Have to add the name NSU from a later period, I believe Audi's stock symbol is NSU.

I had an Audi coupe years ago, totally blacked out. Florida license plate read Horch. Roughly translated, the name Horch is supposed to refer to the words "to hear". In Latin, Audi means basically the same thing, "to hear". One day I was followed by a German tourist who finally pulled up next to me and asked me how I knew about the reference to Horch.

 

yeah, but since they never added the fifth ring and NSU was primarily a motorcycle maker that didn't merge With AU until 1969, I did not mention them.

 

I know, the point was, Subaru got into a class and type of racing that served THEM.

I am not so sure Jim would WANT to run an entire season, even if he had all the sponsorship he could ask for. I could be wrong, also.

But we may have to figure out just what a 'car' is, is it the tub at the exclusion of every other piece? If he broke the tub and bolted on ALL the parts off the broken car is that a 'new' car?

Seriously doubtful, I think they will do very well, the question is: will BMW get back in as an engine supplier?

Not even close.

 

The traditional, generally accepted answer is the car is the tub. [We'll leave aside the question of how he could break a tub & not the remainder of the car. ]

Virtually all the other components have pretty strict lifetimes specified - Suspension pieces, radiators etc etc are all routinely replaced but as long as the tub remains (chassis #XX), it remains "Kinky Keily".

Cheers,
Ian

 

I trekked to Daytona as a guest of a friend who races there. I will never forget the sound of the 333Sp with all my visits there. Fantastic.

 

I remember tubs developed stress fractures 'because that is the nature of carbon fiber' and used to be replaced during the season, but that was awhile ago.

I know the definition of a 'motor' was the block and crank, any other part can be replaced (during a race)

 

Was the 333SP the last Ferrari intended for endurance prototype racing ?



... what if AUDI ever decides to re badge their R8 as Lambos ?

 

They already did it with a Bentley so of course they could.

They don't seem to care about Lambo racing and instead are going to let Bentley and Porsche have a go at Le Mans. The Bentley will probably be a rebadged Audi but the Porsche will be Porsche based. As VW owns them all it's simply a marketing decision.
There aren't enough Lambo's sold to make it worth it to rebadge an Audi as a Lambo race car. It seems like they're going after Ferrari's 458 with a new mid engined 8 cylinder Porsche instead of boosting Lambo by going racing so letting Porsche go to Le Mans will help them with that.

 

Of course they would, no question. But not for the reasons you imply.

LeMans is stacked towards diesels, influenced by Audi's financial contribution to ACO. It has little to do with their raw performance or talent. Any team is capable of winning based on rule manipulation.

LMP cars are performance equalized. They have to be, to guarantee a good show and to guarantee the continuation of the series. Some cars are just more equal than others.

 

DCT have never been in F1.

KERS came from road cars, not the other way around.

I believe traction control originated in road cars, but cannot find enough data to prove it.

By brake steer, are you referring to active handling / ESP / one-wheel braking? This is obviously not allowed in F1 as they require manual brake activation. Sure there was the driver-controlled brake steer but that's nothing like ESP.

Few if any innovations from F1 made or make it to road cars.

 

Carbon fibre vehicle construction?
Carbon brake technology as used in carbon ceramic brakes?
Semi automatic Paddle shift gearboxes? (not dual clutch)
adjustable differentials? (adjustable from the driver seat)
Rear diffusers?
Under floor aerodynamics?
Variable length engine intakes?
Drive by wire throttles?
Car to garage telemetry?
Launch control?
Active suspension?

 

comes from aircraft

aircraft

The kind in road cars has absolutely no relationship to the kind in race cars

comes from road cars

Those likely do come from race cars, but I wonder if they originate in F1

I think that does come from race cars, but again I don't think it originated in F1

Not sure about that one, but I would guess it originates in aircraft

Pointless in a road car

doesn't exist in road cars, at least not in the form that I think of as "active" (the Williams type that was banned); the other type (damper viscosity control) isn't allowed in road racing

 

The definition of innovation is:
in·no·va·tion (n-vshn)
n.
1. The act of introducing something new.
2. Something newly introduced.

Whilst the use of carbon fibre may have come from aircraft, the innovation that F1 gave to road cars was in it's application in automobiles.

As above

Where did the whole concept of paddle shift gearboxes come from? What is the basis of the systems used by Ferrari? Same system or not, the concept came from F1

Whilst active differentials originally come from road cars, I believe they were computer controlled not manually controlled by the driver. F1 has made use of manually adjusted differentials that are adjusted from the steering wheel which is now available in today's supercars (albeit in a simpler form).

A lot of valuable information about underfloor aerodynamics and rear diffusers was discovered in F1 during the ground effect era that is now applied to road cars. I believe most other motor racing disciplines took note of this and made their own versions to suit their needs.

Mmm... It appears that F1 may have got this concept from road cars, so I'll concede on this one.

Similar to the carbon comments above, F1 took it on board for a car before road cars did. The innovation was again in the application.

Can't agree with this one. A car broken down at the side of the road is now capable of transmitting it's diagnostics information to the garage and in some cases, it can be fixed via a mobile phone. Locked yourself out of your car?, it can be opened remotely by someone sat hundreds of miles away!.

I agree on this one, it's a gimmick (and one that puts an awful lot of stress on the drive train)

BMW's E34 M5 had a version of active suspension for a start. Whilst I agree that it's not exactly the same as that of F1, the concept of active suspension derived from F1.