Ferrari outsources F1 engine design work

One more comment on this regarding the nature of the care in which Ferrari should proceed at. Ask yourself, would you feel the same way about this announcement if it had been McLaren? Thats all folks......

 

Good post Jim. But, only one comment, I don't think it is the liberals that need to open their eyes on this issue. However, let's not get into the liberal/conservative views on this. I do agree - it is a reality.

 

It is common knowledge that some of the best software developers come from Asia. Take a look at any graduate Computer related program in the US and 90% of the students are from Asian countries. I am a grad student in the Computer Science program and there are only a handful of American students.

 

Agreed.

IMO they should keep as much as they can in house. I feel this may tarnish the authenticity of Ferrari. Keep it Italian.

As for cheapening the brand image: I see the Ferrari logo on more products than Honda nowadays! Ferrari cameras, laptops, ****ing gym equipment!? Give me a break. Stick to cars and apparel! and even then ensure exclusitivity!

 

One can only speculate as to what TCS will actually do since none of the PR I've seen does specify what precise contribution Tata will bring other than "IT and engineering services".
F1 structural and aerodynamic design involves a lot of data crunching, so does telemetry (more than 1000 traces per car) in testing and racing, an enormous amount of data which is beamed real time via satellite to the factory for analysis.
Perhaps what is being published is a simple IT infrastructure and hosting deal, with a tarted up corporate marketing story.

 

Gentlemen.
I have in my possession a rather non-PC joke on this very subject. It's in the form of a Powerpoint (ppt.pps) slide, so I'm not sure how I could link or post it to the thread. Very apt and really funny IMO. If anybody wants to see it drop me an eMail ([email protected]) and I'll gladly forward. File size is approx 1.1MB

 

They may say that they are "designing" F1 engines, but that doesn't mean that it's so. Indian companies are as good at marketing hype as anyone.

Tata is an old, established Indian company. They started in iron and steel manufacturing, moved into machine tools, automotive supply, and a widely diverse scope of supply, and their engineering capabilties are first rate. India became a source for lower-cost software creation over 20 years ago. They can do work the equal of anyone in the world and they get paid less money for it.

Ferrari is outsourcing engine management software (not F1 engine design) to a company that can do the work and will do it for less money and probably more quickly than it can be done in Italy. Ferrari will design the engines and Tata will have a role in creating the actual operating software and programming to control the engine per the operating specifications developed by Ferrari.

This is a smart move. Ferrari saves money and gains good PR in India where an entrepreneurial class is developing rapidly.

 

You're a funny man Schatten. I see your original point but I don't know if that's truly the case. As you said, time will tell.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

As long as the entry level road car costs $200,000 and only a few thousand are made, Ferrari's image and name will never cheapen.
The spin-offs are for most people the closest they'll ever come to a Ferrari. Why not let them eat cake....it's beautiful and delicious.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Paolo Martinelli designs the engines. This press release is for a software deal, not at all on the sharp end of the racing biz.

 

Jim,

I am some one who is an EMS(Electronic Manufacturing Service)provider. I manufacturer all apple powerbook powersupplies, Dell notebook power supplies, Dishnetwork PVR boxes and disk drive components for Western Digital and Maxtor. These are all pretty high profile companies, which everbody wants to do business with. These are companies which sell some of the best products to consumers and guess where I manufacturer their products for them? India! It has nothing to do with low cost labor. I supply to these companies, because of my design, engineering,technology and manufacturing capabilities. India has the top engineers in the world. Did you know that 46% of Microsoft employees are from india and it has nothing to do with the labor being cheaper, actually most of them live in the U.S. and have been educated in India. Same thing with Nasa, 50% of Nasa employees are indian, and from what I remember Bush just passed some kind of law that any government related projects can not be outsourced, which means Nasa cannot outsource any of their work. I don't where you go off saying you have seen product design stolen reversed engineered and are being sold for less manufactured in India. I understand that about China, but not India. Firstly, yes I do agree India is cheaper labor for software and hardware, but manufacturing hardware in India is not as cheap as China. For one India does not have the infrastructure to source raw materials and components. All materials and components we buy from China. This becomes very expensive for us because of shipping and on top of it you have to pay duty. My point is, I have never seen a product from India that has been a stolen design, reversed engineered and sold for less, even in India. As for intellectual property, its easier for China to violate them compared to India because China companies are owned by the government. As for software, India is very cheap because its labor intensive, but going back to my point on Microsoft and Nasa, they are using indian engineers because for their skill level. To the people who have a problem with outsourcing, tough. Times are changing, this is just only going get bigger. I don't think your problem is ignorance, it feeling threatened.

Vic

 

Vic,
Let me start off with, I do not think you are ignorant - but I MUST HAVE hit a nerve with you. You are fuller than a stuffed pig if you think I believe your ridiculous %'s of Indian employees at M-soft and NASA. Give me a break on your Indian rah rah speach. I CAN tell you that a VERY HIGH percentage of the Indian Engineers working at NASA were educated in the good old US of A with our tax/tuition dollars - and that is a crime. Why? Because the Universities are sacrificing the very people who feed them, in the guise of international diversity, and THAT is BS. My brother works for NASA and you are full of crap.

THe instances of product fraud and out and out stealing, (that I talked about) occured in CHina AND India - and I have had first hand experience with several companies. As I noted in my statements, which you obviously did not read or choose to ignore, I am sure there are many professional up-and-up companies in both countries. THe ones I dealt with (usually on the back end due to some crisis or fraud), came highly recommended with the government/province/etc.,etc. seal of approval. 95% were/are as crooked as the UN. I have been to China and India and have caught them with their proverbial hands in the cookie jar (our tools coming in the back door as we arrive, complete assembly stations stripped completely down in an attempt to reproduce, missing tooling, identical products with my companies mold identifiers on them,.... how long do you have?). Threatened? I do not feel threatened as I know first hand the diferences in the abilities of the manufacturing sector of my country and others (and perhaps yours?). We will learn and become better for it. I understand and support economies of scale. THe problem, and worry, that I have is that most of the people making the decisions about outsourcing have no clue other than it's the latest buzzword. If a little is good, more MUST be better! THe crooked accountants can make an elephant fly, so there is your justification. What a crock. As I said before, these companies are giving it all away and will not be long for this world. Look for the equivalent product branded under a Chinese or Indian name. With no developmental or tooling cost, how can they lose! And how can the original company stay in biz. Not a question, but a statement. Bottom line, don't you dare lecture me with your line of BS - because I know better. And don't chicken $#it post without filling in your profile.

Jim

Oh and BTW, you are a "smart" guy - any idea where better than 70% of the bogus pirated M-soft products are coming from? HEY!, China and India, with Russia coming in a close third. What a surprise! Yup, they are "skillfull" bunch.

 

Jim,

Just to let you know, John Shirley(Microsoft EX-President) is a personal friend of mine. I am sure you know who he is. My information about a % of Microsoft and NASA employees are Indian is not a bunch of crock. I maybe wrong about where they were educated, but it just goes to show even though they have been educated here, they are superior. It is unecessary for you to call me inappropriate names. With all the experience you have, I can't believe you are having difficult time over a simple debate. It just shows your level of maturity. This no pissing contest. I am just giving my insight on this subject. For you to make remarks on, indians were educated in the US with our tax/tuition dollars and it is a crime etc., is uncalled for. I don't know why I am giving any importance and replying to your comments, but it shows me you are just racist $# and I hope I don't ever have to deal with your type.

Vic

 

if you say "central europe" in difference to "western europe", then the only thing i can remark to your comment is, that in this case, the central europeans know as much about italians as they do about indians. please do not pretend to talk in other's names when you are making comments like this.

 

Extremely rude comments may follow, you may be offended too:

Quite frankly, your birth on earth was a disaster. Let us now analyse the performance of non gypsy engines over the past year.
Mercedes Engines for McLaren: How shall we put put this lightly... pieces of junk! (just ask Kimi)
Cosworth crap supplied to Jordon: Maybe finised a handful of races.
I seem to remember that those gypsy italian built engines won 15 races!!!

There is only one place to settle this issue, on the race track. You wait and watch... you won't be disappointed after the Ferrari cars with Tata built engines kick central european ass (again!).

Now let us analyze your facts about world history:
The Gypsy people did not come from Asia. It is pointless even trying to explain to you there history because you seem to have a low brain cell count.

As for the place you call hell on earth... it is very clear that you have never left your parents home. You sit at home and click through your TV channels absorbing the nonsense that is on your central european TV. Enjoy the rest of your life being an ignorant fool.

Also, please refrain on genralizing what the Central Europeans feel based upon your misguided views.

 

Sorry Vic, but I call them as I see them. Yes this is a simple debate, and I am not having the least bit of problem with it. I explained my views on outsourcing. I gave examples and was more specific when I replied to you. You turned it into a Indian supremecy speech (BTW, who is the racist?), totally ignoring the points I was making. My business dealings with outsourcing in China and India have been disasters. Maybe your issue is you can not accept these facts. Please note I said "facts". I then called you on your fabrications and you say I'm immature? Har! I find it interesting that there are other posts which obviously degrade India and you have no response. Why is that Vic? Is it because I was the only one to challenge your lies? I guess you also ignored the fact that my brother works for NASA (not Nasa, BTW). He also had a jolly laugh about your labor force "statistics". I will also have to ask some of my friends (whose direct country of origin include Africa, UK, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, France, Japan, India, Mexico, Australia, Turkey, Egypt, Chile....hmmm, I'm sure there are more), if they think I am as racist as you think I am. What is interesting is that these very people share my views. They worked very hard to get where they are today - many times without help.

My views on education? Very simple. I don't care what color you are or if you are from Mars, the current policy is WRONG. University grants and scholarships should be based on merit - NOT HEADCOUNT, NOT COUNTRY OF ORIGIN! (I am not talking about private grants) If you have a problem with that, then you can personally fund it. For I would like to send my kids to college without also having to pay for someone less deserving.

I expressed my frustration over my experiences with outsourcing. And I believe it was you who turned this into a "pissing contest". The names I have called you are very appropriate. Actually I think they are pretty tame compared to what I am really thinking about you. I also hope I never have to deal with your type. Integrity means a lot to me.

Jim

BTW, did you ask your "personal friend" Mr. Shirley about the pirated bogus M-soft software issue originating from India? Please tell me! I'm sure some lowly, dishonest, dumb, uneducated, American pig is behind it all - it can't be an India problem.

 

I personally interviewed a 3 guys from TATA for position of WEB Developer. Neither was acceptable. Last guy was interviewed while i had several managers on the phone. That guy had absolutely no clue how to read value of TEXTAREA object (http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/dhtml/reference/properties/value_0.asp) and i am absolutely, he didn't know how to do it at all, didn't had a slightest clue !!! Answer like "there should be some property that can be read" would've been acceptable.

After that interview we agreed we shouldn't waste our time trying to get competent people from TATA.

 

Let's take a look on the facts here:


Teams of engineers and specialists from Tata Consultancy will assist in the development of a Formula 1 racing car engine for the next season beginning March, said N. Chandrasekaran, executive vice president of the company.
<...>
The first group of Tata's engineers has already reached Maranello, Ferrari's headquarters, to start work on the project, Chandrasekaran said. Tata Consultancy will provide software and various automation services for Ferrari.


Announcement is just worded this way to sound more important than it is.

I think that means that TATA may be developing some engine design\simulation software for Ferrari. I don't think there will be a single line of TATA's code on Ferrari F1 engine control module.It doesn't make sense to outsource stuff that you need to tweak every time during your test sessions

 

I think this thread is moving away from racing into something that needs to be in the "Other off topic section".

 

Heh! How about politics and religion - not for the weak at heart! Sorry for the hijack, I just could not let that BS go!
Jim

 

Vic:

I'm not an Indian, so I don't know which box to check, but where do Indians fit in at NASA?

White Non-Hispanic 77.9%
Black 10.8%
Hispanic 4.9%
Asian/Pacific Islander 5.5%
Native American/Alaskan Native 0.9%

http://www.ourpublicservice.org/usr_doc/NASA_DEMOGRAPHICS_-_March_12,_2003.pdf

 

Thank you Eric. My brother was digging up similar stats and you beat him to it. I don't want to prolong this thread as I am done with this clown.
Jim

 

You think Ferrari's lack of pace this year had anything to do with this outsourcing deal ?

Now more news - TATA goes to Williams
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=26965

Don't these guys have to sign some restraining agreement that prohibit them from working for competitor ?

 

I don't think TATA is providing any kind of help to Williams other than cash flow.

Besides, the company has over 220,000 employees. There's nothing wrong with one division, or department for that matter, contracting with one company while another department works on behalf of it's competitor.

EDS used to that as I'm sure many companies do. As long as no information is shared between the two departments/divisions (i.e. they operate as separate entities) then I don't see a conflict.

 

the cost saving is not as drastic as you think.. and outsourcing only works maybe 50% of the time as long as the contract manager is top notch and stays on the ball.

my last company outsourced my job.. but totally dropped the ball and went -5 Mill in the budget.. and came crawling back to all the engrs they laid off..

Asia does come up with some great engineers.. but we are already here heheh

you get what you pay for.

sometimes good sometimes bad.. generalizations /stereotyping does not help anybody..


and for those who think ferrari should stay "Italian", the enzo chief designer was .. Ken Okuyama (theres an Italian sounding name for you : )


this thread is venturing into P & R territory