Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Some good stuff in this, and your previous post. But I'm gonna stay out of this to keep the peace (and the sex coming). Lol

Point of reference: Porsche is alleged to think, they can chop off 10-15 secs off of their Ring time (better batteries, car optimization, Driver Run, Aero, etc.) even before the cup tires arrive. So the Cup tires could shave off additional time on top of that.

Now of course, we don't know if they can really chop off 10-15 secs (even before the cup tires), or whatever? Who knows? But it would be interesting to see them attempt another Ring run on the production level car before the new tires arrived, just to set, see that new benchmark. We'll see, stay tuned.

Note: Regarding the Nissan Ring comparison/earlier argument (beyond you're sensible 'eeking out those extra precious seconds' response you used): It's pretty clear the 918 wasn't fully optimized, and ongoing. It's a new car and model. It can do better. What would the run be now? And of course, they have those new tires looming on the horizon. One thing we know for certain: Nissan had that car "fully optimized". Plus it's been out for a while, and has only been improved over the years. So I'll leave it at that (especially the having it "fully optimized" part). Lol

 

Q&A: Gordon Murray wants to prove hybrid hypercars wrong | Goodwood Road and Racing

 

Thats 1 series with awd and the power numbers are impressive. But the actual racing is sub par. Now if they race each other at 10 10ths trading paint on the same lap for 12 to 24 hrs id be impressed. They basically race the track. How exciting is it to see cars win by 1 or more laps. If they raced in America, in a real series we'd see how awd stood up.

 

It makes 512hp na and 480 from the electric motors. Not even close to 700hp na. I just looked it up. So I recant my last statement. Its not that impressive at all.

 

Wow, the 991 turbo S is fast. I never thought it would be as fast as a 650S..

 

The Nismo GT-R N-attack car (the one used to set their lap time) has 600 horsepower. I don't know if it's underrated or what, but the reviews of the car reference 600 horsepower, 481 torque. Also Ferrari never set an official nurburgring time with the Enzo, to my knowledge. Please correct me if I am wrong, but whatever time you are referencing is some third party attempt.

The point I was trying to make is that Nissan can show up with a car for relative pennies and set a 7:08, while Porsche shows up with a million dollar car and manages a 6:57. Assuming they're the same weight (918 should be a little lighter), that extra 287 horsepower and extra ~$800k seems like a lot for 11 secs. Hell, a Dodge got their $100k Viper with stone age technology to turn a 7:12 (again, with 600 horsepower). By all means go on about reality, ignorance, beliefs, sentiments, and your goodness, but these are facts.

Also regarding the weissach pack, the guys in here talking about the nurburgring lap time and how the 918 is so much more comfortable, livable, drivable, blah blah are proverbially trying to have their cake and eat it too. To set their 6:57, Porsche had to strip everything out of the car, which Porsche themselves acknowledges saves them seconds around the lap. Without the weissach pack, the car would not be sub-7:00. Sure you can get the weissach pack and add your air-conditioning, glove box, leather, carpets, radio and paint back in, but then it's not the same car capable of the advertised lap.

If you want to go back to the whole "who cares about a few seconds on the nurburgring" argument, please be my guest, but then be happy about the 918 being slower than the P1 at the ring (even though they haven't given a time, McLaren has confirmed that their lap was under 7:00).

 

You are eagle eyed, yes I am one & the same. Had not mentioned the other times as I thought these were not pertinent to this discussion. Also, TG were probably acutely aware of the rather less traveled circuit and wanted Dunsfold times as a benchmark to compare these two vehicles.

As regards TG times, from memory, the 458 Italia they tested some years back clocked a 1:19.1 while the 12C recorded a 1:16.2 on the Dunsfold track...driven by two different drivers masked as 'the stig'. Ben Collins, the driver who clocked the 458 lap time revealed in his book (that I had thumbed through at a point) that he was given the 458 with almost shot tires after Clarkson had hooned around in all day....

 

That C7 is very impressive. Its out performed by the McLaren and porsche quartet, but not by as much as the cost would dictate. The Z07 is simply going to be incredible. And once again Ferrari bows out of another group test. I hope to read all the negative comments that they Truly deserve. They couldn't send 1 car? Even McLaren, the so called failure by so many on this forum had the balls to supply their inferior to the 918 cars, knowing that they were going to get beat by the all conquering porsche.
So Whats Ferraris excuse, or do they get a pass?

 

Paper racing of cars that are no fun to drive on the street.

 

Something tells me that the engines used by factory LMP cars are in fact mighty impressive. Knowing how much some teams spend on the LMP cars -- Porsche rumored to have spent $200M -- I'm sure they are pretty cutting edge engines. I doubt they throw just any engine in them.

 

Guys, a quick note on the Zonda R. It was never developed to be a race car. In fact its was a test bed for the chassis set up for the Huayra. If you check out a Huayra chassis and suspension you find that the are almot identical. The only real differences being the ride height and damper set up and bushings

 

I never understand why so many underestimate porsche. Yes the turbo s, crushes most car in acceleration, including many super cars. The gt3 while half the price or more, wins or stays on pace with the ferrari 458 special, mclaren ect as recent comparisons clearly show.

Hell even the 918 which was so laughably underestimated, when compare to the p1 and lafa has flipped the script on the doubters.

Perhaps the less exotic look of the p car causes many to underestimate, I dunno.

 

I found this bit of the article interesting.

""Road cars you admire?

The purest new sports car for me is the Ferrari 458. And the best is the Porsche Cayman S. Among old cars, the (original) Lotus Elan is the ultimate, better than the F1. We tried to get its delicious steering feel in the F1 but we just missed it."""

 

200m in total for the team and r&d isnt that much. Bottom tier F1 teams burn through that and dont even score a point all year. And Im sure they dont just throw any engine in there. The money was spent on the hybryd system and aero imho. They'd be better off in TUDOR racing with real competition not just some Lets see who can out last the other guy and hope we can make it the full 24hrs.TUDOR has 12 and 24 hr races too.

 

RESTRICTED to 500+ per air ristricters and regulations. Napolis' P4/5C uses same engine (650hp) from 458 GT2 (500hp). I guess 1000hp combined racing for 24hrs doesn't impress you. Eeesh. I'm certain 918 out accelerating, out-braking, and out handles P1 (in the hands of most every driver) doesn't impress you either, seeing how early and heavily you sided with P1. Tough customer, true believer indeed.

 

interesting indeed.

for me, the 'best' cars I've driven is last gen Cayman S, and right up there a 996 GT3. Obviously not even close to speed of 700+ and 900+ whp GTR's I've driven, but much nicer driving experience.

 

you have to remember that they are underestimated because they lack 'cache'

 

we know that. it was a track day special, while trying new materials. sequential gearbox, prototype level downforce, 750hp, much lighter than GT2/GT3 race cars. just giving reference that a real race car with 200hp less and being heavier easily laps NS faster, making point that HP isn't everything.

 

you're telling ME that I haven't been paying attention? haha, that's funny. oh brother.

 

Porsche couldn't car less where the cars are pitted head to head, Mac wants greater control over what,when,where,how to ensure that it 'represents what our car can do'. (having 'the best car in the world', that shouldn't be necessary). and we all know that Dunsfold was the 'comeback' moment for 12C, as it had been bettered by 458 in many mags prior. It was clearly the moment Mac would have its cake and eat it too (which they literally did!)

 

you are actually pretty funny. lets talk facts. you know how much weight Burmeister hi fi and glove box add? 12.9lbs. Adding back the 2nd vaporizer of A/C for 2 zone climate control adds another MASSIVE 2lbs You clearly don't know the details behind this car and you are making marginalizing statements based on lack of knowledge. Guess what, the full 'standard' full fat pig 918 still out accelerates and out-brakes P1. Not too shabby huh? GTR certainly did not cost pennies to develop, list price does not reflect true cost, how is that something you don't already know? You are trying to make GTR out to be cheap kit car in order to make 918 appear less of a machine. In that line of thinking, then GTR makes 458 Speciale downright junk. Oh dear, 'stone age' technology in the Viper...errr, lets talk more facts. you are very ignorant of the matter of 1000lbs+ downforce , track bias chassis setup, and Cup tires that are worth 10-15 seconds on NS depending on car and setup. Those tires still outperform the low resistance rollers standard on 918 by a wide margin (thus new formulated/constructed Cups forthcoming for sizes 918 uses). BTW, Active Aero was not working on 918 NS lap. worth 1-2 seconds.

 

+1 lol

hard to keep up with the keyboard racers

 

tell us how to physically drive cars on a internet car forum and we will

 

Hypothetical in a year or two...

Took 918 out today. Very fast and easy to drive. Shifts super fast and seamless. No problem keeping up with the other guys. A little boring, probably need to really wring it out on the track. Feels a little "heavy". Kind of like a Veyron or a GT-R. Open top is fun, like CGT. CGT definitely feels more dangerous and twitchy. Adrenaline is always running high with CGT. Not so much with 918. All CGT nervousness is dialed out. Too bad no manual shift. Sounds OK, but CGT sounds a bit racier.

Took LaFerrari out. Unbelievable. Pretty much woke up the neighborhood when starting. Very fast like 918, but not as smooth. Got some wheel spin and even understeered a bit in one turn! Sound is phenomenal. Definitely got my blood pumping. Felt like it would let me do whatever I like - not here to save me. Love feeling the road and rocks in my back. Pretty exotic seating position. Great forward visibility and love the way the doors open. Really easy to get in and out of. Feels super light - like it's made out of paper. Feels like it's part of me.

Heard someone got 918 to be faster than LaFerrari on the Ring. And the new Nissan GT-R was just a few second behind. Interesting I suppose. Either way, I was able to keep up with the guys today in either car steering with one finger. But I had to try a little harder in LaFerrari and got a bit more loose. That was fun.

 

you might not be too far off Bill btw, did you decide on LaF after all? Would be nice to go with your Enzo for sure!