Ferrari F80 value thread

100%. Somehow I don't see, 40 yrs from now, anyone ever saying:

"F80 is from Benedetto Vigna era. This alone greatly increases the value."

 

Fair enough, I am under 40 I don’t know if that means I’m off the new generation of enthusiasts but while I love the elegance and purity of yesteryears car. I also want the brand I love to look forward and give us new experiences, and be on the leading edge of innovation and design. The SF90 I feel embodies that.

Different strokes et al

 

I disagree. The Enzo's looks were a lot more decisive when it came out, then add in it has a terrible gearbox that makes the car hugely frustrating to drive.

The F80 may also the last Hyper Ferrari to have an ICE, that alone will push up the values long term.

 

Sadly values aren’t driven by scarcity alone. If they were my 348 challenge tb (one of 32) would be millions and not a couple hundred grand. 355 evo (one of 40) would be millions and not a couple hundred grand. Etc etc etc…

 

I do not think Ferrari ever said the next hypercar will be 100% electric, personally I very much doubt it…

 

It will all come down to when they release it, and what happens with the EU laws which currently are set to ban ICE cars being sold from 2035.

 

you guys ever hear of THE MARKET?
THE MARKET is the one who decides what something is worth.
quite obviously there is something going on with the f40....how could it be that a car that was made 4-6x more than a 288 or an f50 is worth almost as much, and certainly far more on a cumulative basis across the number made (F40 total production valuation is approx $3.2 billion).....how could it be....

well it is because it is the most popular across all ages and demographics.
as i said somewhere else in this thread, the F40 is one of the most recognized cars on the planet - even in places they have no cars !

unfortunately, the market is always right.
you may not like it, you may not agree with it.
i think ferrari bb's ought to be twice the value of dinos but the inverse is true. it annoys me but i cannot do anything about it.
F40's appear disproportionately priced vs their production numbers because the market - ie all those with enough money to buy one- will do so at the price that they feel reflects value to them. your own opinion is only really relevant to you - sorry.

the F80 is a big question mark.
will it necessarily reach a higher value - and beat inflation - over the next 10 years like all the others?
no idea.
personally i kind of doubt it since despite the engineering prowess and racing credentials, doesnt capture the imagination the way the past cars, and certainly the F40, have done.

we shall see what the market thinks...

 

Great post and I certainly agree with it (except maybe the comment on F80 - “doesn’t capture the imagination in the way previous cars did” - which could prove to be correct but remains to be seen). There could even be an argument to change the “market is always right” comment to “the market is always correct, even when it is not right” (playing with words a little but emphasises an important point - the market follows tastes, which change and it might not have perfect information). The fact is, as you say, markets are always driven by demand and supply and that determines price - if there is no interference. The fun is in trying to understand where the market is lagging and will catch up as tastes change. If you can predict how tastes will change and what information is ‘hidden’ from the market, you can predict how it is going to move. Very difficult, especially in a market like cars where everyone’s emotions are involved and buyers buy for a multitude of different reasons. People basically buy stocks for one reason.

The super/luxury car market is a complex market. Hidden things can have a big influence. For example, an F40 has a known demand - it is well established what the drivers for this are; Le Mans, raw feel, turbo lag, poor build, stunning and era defining looks, macho driving skills needed and Enzo’s last car. Over 1,300 were made, so in theory it has a known supply. However, not so many are of the condition and provenance to command the prices visible in the market. For the collector, the real supply quantity is actually much lower than the original build number. This will drive prices up.

Your comment about the Dino vs the BB is one probably many identify with. The market is partly driven by tastes, which change. The Dino has had a surge because of its size, light weight driving feel and simple beauty - all qualities highly valued today. The BB doesn’t possess these things, it has other qualities which, currently, are less valued. Will that be the case tomorrow? We have a F512M, which is basically a Testarossa. The Testarossa has long been a car that many think will come back into fashion. For the last few years the 60’s flowing lines have piqued people’s interest and influenced market tastes and therefore values. Clearly that has nothing to do with Testarossa! But the Testarossa is completely iconic and defined its era. I think a Testarossa should be valued above a number of other cars but isn’t. Might it be one day? Could be. The EV era, which pushes tastes into the direction of smooth, teardrop, aerodynamically-led shapes, will show the Testarossa to be something wild from the past, even more than today. Might that change tastes towards it? Hard to tell.

The F40 and Enzo were both boxy designs, like the F80, and both had some opposition at launch. The Enzo has recently had an incredible surge in value. I don’t believe the same can’t happen for the F80 at some point. It’s impossible to tell what things might happen to change tastes years into the future. The technology it possesses will be given different context by what prevails in the future, the looks will do the same. The high price certainly lessens the chance of significant improvement but even so, it’s hard to know what will happen in the longer term. Could it go down in the shorter term? Certainly. Will it? Absolutely no idea. Are there reasons it could do better? Some, yes. I personally think we have not yet fully appreciated the true importance of Ferrari’s Le Mans win at the first time of asking after 50 years away, and at the 100th running of the race. The F80 is heavily associated with this car and that could mean a lot in the future. Probably the right conclusion is that the car itself will have little to do with it. The timing of its launch will. The new interest rate era could change a lot in the car market. Is that something the market has not understood yet?

 

I agree, based on the law of supply and demand, in the end it is always the market who decides what something is worth. That's what explains why someone would pay $70.2 million for a 250 GTO.

As is known, the classics market has ups, downs and sometimes long periods of stagnation. However, what the Classic.com graphs below indicate, I refer to them only as an example, is that from 2021 onwards the F40 suffered a huge increase in demand and as a result prices soared. In the case of the 288 GTO something similar happened, but the number of transactions is much smaller.

What can be inferred with some certainty is that worldwide at the moment there is a number of potential buyers with the financial capacity to pay several million for a classic Ferrari, which is well above the number of cars that potentially can be sold.




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Yes, my fault: my point was that all three have much less cylinders than the Ferrari "standard".
I have no idea what their vvalue should be, but in my opinion paying 2.5 million for a car that has 1300+ twins (even the color!!!) is something very strange.
The same for a 308 GTB QV derived 288 GTO who never raced one time (while the 308 GTB did many times with many victories too)

Yes, my fault: my point was that all three have much less cylinders than the Ferrari "standard".
Beauty is subjective: I don't like very much the F40 shape, that is very aggressive, but no beauty, as my personal opinion. I like very much the race and victory heritage that comes with the F80, a car derived from the 2023 Le Mans winner 499P

The F80 history is the 2023 Le Mans winner 499P: more winng than any F40 and than any 288 GTO (a car who never raced).

No 348 challenge was ever produced: there were some unsold 348 sitting in a garage since too much time and so - to sell them before the 355 release - they added a kit and here you are the 348 Challenge. Here in Italy that's a very well known story.

Ciao

 

The F80 has certainly captured the imagination of my 12 year old nephew, he love's it, he asked if any models are available yet for his Xmas.

 

By history i mean the actual passing of time. People who grew up with the 288 and F40 are now starting to be in the financial position to afford cars they dreamt off when being kids or teens so now they are buying them. Compound that with the older generations that wanted f40s and 288s since day one and you have supply < demand.

So the F80 will appeal to a market right now but with time, more people will want it and will be able to afford it, which will push the price up. But right now, kids and teens dreaming about one wont move the needle.

 

Not to derail this thread but it’s interesting the very well known story didn’t make it to Maranello because they had printed materials about challenge cars they built including window stickers (below) as well as numbered tags (below) showing 32 built that were installed on the cars. Even today they describe the 348 challenge they built on their own website…

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And now, back to the F80 values!

 

Nice post.
It is important to note that there are the 348 Challenge that were originally built (45 units, but only 32 numbered), and the 348 that received a factory kit and raced in the North American Ferrari Challenge series (more than 100 units), which are often for sale as "348 Challenge", but are not actually part of the original series.
Correct me if I'm wrong in any detail.
Even though it's off-topic, I thought it was interesting to bring this up.

 

Other than sharing a badge, an engine with the same number of cylinders (but not the same engine - correct me if I'm wrong), and a hybrid system, the F80 and the 499P have nothing in common. If a Ferrari loyal customer wanted to buy a car with heritage they made a few 499P's for customers to play with.

 

to maintain a 499p you will have to keep it in the Ferrari Client program. It is not simple and only Ferrari/AF Corse can put that car on the track. There are zero for sale and unlikely any will be for quite some time. The battery is only shipped by air freight

 

Absolutely! I don't understand this urban legend that we try to make with the F80 which would be "derived" from the 499 ! Common parts can be counted on the fingers of one hand

 

The 499 uses the F163 engine, the F80 uses the F163 CF engine - a derivation. Same size, both 120 degree V6. 296 uses the F163 BC engine. They are all derivations of the same unit. The F80’s unit at 300hp per litre is clearly the most different since the 499s unit is much closer in power to the 296. The F80’s engine is a special power unit for the sheer power numbers it has. Incredible really.

 

A pure racing car and a road car cannot have identical parts, as the requirements are different. The ethos and the design philosophy (the 120 degrees V6 and the AWD hybrid system) are of similar concept though.

 

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The King.

 

The King of what?
Maybe in your world. Not mine.

Marcel Massini

 

Finally will they allowed a body colored roof ?

 

A good analog-y.

 

I learned that the average hypercar/supercar customer has significantly increased their inventory in the last 10 years. So I decided to figure out how. Well the how is they have more disposable income. So here is the information I have found this week.

There has been almost a doubling of very Ultra High Net Worth ($50M in 2023) individuals from 2015 to 2023.

Globally, in 2015, there were ~123,800. In 2023, almost a doubling to ~264,200.

Based on the jump in equity markets from 2023 to current 12/2024, the number is probably much larger. The S&P 500 has gained 29% since 12/31/2023 while the NASDAQ has gained 34%.

My source for data was the Wealth-X and Knight Frank report that reported similar numbers. Wealth-X had the most granular range data. Also interpolated from a UBS Global Wealth Report who had different bands. But roughly the same. All of the reports showed the same important variable: that the number of people effectively doubled globally. How that correlates and is causative to hypercar purchasing, I don’t have any regression analysis But this fits with pricing as well as volume increases across the hypercar/mega supercar landscape. Just an idea for us to consider.

 

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