Ferrari F430 Manual Conversion - Now does this affect value?

They must have been pricing the one in the first image with the alligator interior. I’ve yet to see a manual conversion sell at a discount to a non-converted car. Maybe I just haven’t looked lately?

 

Although the premium seems to be diminishing compared to a year ago, I also haven’t seen any discount versus a comparable F1 car. If there was, I would have bought it instead of an F1 car, period.

 

The article also fails to consider the quality of the conversion; who did it and whether OEM parts were used. I’d say these are relevant factors for most people on here.


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Maybe a bit blunt, but I can’t help the ‘fake Rolex’ feeling I have with these converted cars.

Yes, it does tell the time and looks just like a Submariner, but it’s not original.

Maybe I’m the only one who thinks like this.

 

I get where you're coming from, but think of it as a replica watch band on a real Rolex . The important stuff is genuine.

 

The aversion to modding Ferraris in general is kind of strange to me. Given that clone parts exist for conversion, I don’t see how it’s a fiero with a testarossa body kit when the driving experience is the end goal. I guess for some if it didn’t come from Maranello it’s an abomination, but I’m glad the option exists.

 

This makes me think about when I was on an airplane last Friday from SFO to Newark. People were coming down the aisle and stopped right in front of me was a guy with the most awful Rolex knockoff I had ever seen. Made me embarrassed to be wearing my real Milgauss.

 

This probably stems from hagerty analytics and underwriting trying to determine Ins values for swap cars.

Whether they are accurate or not.. this just highlights how disruptive folks like eag are to this space.

pretty cool if you ask me.. I remember meeting art over 5 yrs ago he took me for a ride in his swapped f430 test mule…. It drove like a stock car.

 

thanks for digging this out.. I agree with article

 

I think the article is spot on; when the conversions were rare and performed using oem parts in a careful meticulous way there was added perceived value and for a brief moment converted cars slotted above similar F1 cars.

Now that there is a flood of converted cars with a random smattering of machined parts there is no longer a premium but actually a discount compared to unmolested F1 cars.

Having spent >30$k for conversion and then some I feel it now it was a poor financial decision but still was worth it in my case given the cost and delays that were incurred trying to diagnose F1 issues before finally finding a good local independent Ferrari shop. It's also a unique driving experience and I would not have spent the $100k premium for a manual oem car without turning it into a garage queen.

As always market is about demand and supply; the flood of conversions has had the exact effect you would expect ... no surprises here.

 

Check bringatrailer and you will see the discount is real and getting worse with time ...

 

I’m reminded of the response I made a few years ago to someone asking if they should put a stripe on a 360. I said on a CS it’s fake, on a 360 it’s a poser. I was ridiculed and destroyed for such an egalitarian viewpoint. Mind you the op asked for a response. I still don’t like fake stripes on a CS. Every one of us runs our finger across the stripe to ascertain if it is OEM.

Having said all that, I own the 360 CH Modificata. A manual 360 CH. It is awesome! It has no stripe.

 

I got my conversion Nov 2020 and it was challenging to figure out everything that was going on at that time.

I can't imagine trying to figure out what is going on in today's environment for someone who has just jumped in and hasn't been tracking this all along...much less trying to figure out this whole situation 20 years from now.

At least there are several options now - good for those converting.

Figuring out the value, seems maybe too soon to tell, that article didn't say much imho, just echoed the obvious

It will probably come down at some point to the level of documentation to authenticate what you have as time goes on, just like if you were to buy a car today that was from the 80's that isn't a perfect OEM car and had work done.

20 years from now, a nice F430 with a 6 speed is gonna be a sought after car, no doubt. Most of the car is still original Ferrari and that alone will make it valuable.

The transmission will be a point of debate on the final value.

OEMs will always top out on value, no doubt. Non-OEM, will be a question of being able to ensure the buyer of the quality of what you have 'under the tunnel'. They are buying the whole car after all, so this just becomes one of the factors in consideration of the acquisition.

6 speed F430s, converted or OEM, will be rare relative to what is in the future market, so they will bring the $$$'s, each purchase will have to make their case for what they have if it is not 100% OEM.

Even if Ferrari made all of them with 6spd eliminating the exclusivity, it would still be a sought after car just because of its greatness, every F430 will be a sought after car at some point regardless of F1, 6spd, OEM or not, it will be a value spectrum.

Just my 2 cents

 

Agree. I feel a lot of the recent conversion were for cars that were sold recently after which to me says either the conversion had issues or they owner did it to take advantage of the premium the market was giving at the time. When I was looking, even converted cars were pushing $60k over stock. Over time, that frenzy will die down to just those that just really appreciate the manual aspect and aren't searching for a return. I feel that well sorted manual conversions will always have some more value than a stock F1. Maybe not as much as the price of the conversion, but I think there's enough people looking for the manual Ferrari experience that they won't be discounted.

Either way, I'm not buying into the Haggerty chart. There's no way you're losing 35% or 20% due to a conversion. Those cars must have had other issues or were super low mileage examples fit for an investment or show only collection where correctness is valued over anything.

 

Agreed Joe, particularly on the Hagerty piece

Also, if someone converts a car to increase its value, well I don't know what to say to that. If you want a car that is going to increase in value, you buy OEM and preserve it, that's the formula there.

I converted mine so I could have the pleasure of owning and driving an F430 6spd, not to collect it.

I will keep it in the best shape I can, but I'm putting miles on it. If I ever sell it and get at least a fair market return, I'll be a happy camper.

 

It seems that they slightly misquoted some of the data when they said converted cars sell at a discount to their F1 equipped brethren. I've not seen that either, and perhaps they simply meant as compared to factory gated cars. I couldn't make that make sense.

However, the gap seems to be most definitely narrowing between a converted car and a factory F1.

Its funny how the numbers tend to nuance with say, an early 360 F1 - which, lets admit - was not Ferrari's best effort versus say a later 430 F1 which some even consider the 'right' gearbox given the characteristics of the engine along with its improved autoshift experience.

In any event, a very interesting article. One wonders will this parallel the 'cut' Daytonas back in the day when Straman (and others) were enticingly removing roofs at a big price for the same perceived value gap, only to see those gaps shrink to virtually zero in time. We shall see.

 

Recent results would indicate the converted cars, especially later cars converted with non-factory parts, are trransacting at prices below a clean F1 transmission car with the same spec.

That was the purpose of the article.

The perceived value of the early conversion with all factory parts (before they became NLA) drove up the prices of converted cars, especially because the parts were so hard to find. Once people began machining their own conversion parts and converting cars en masse, the rarity/exclusivity went down.

Everyone who wanted a conversion to actually keep/drive now has one, and there were quite a few cars converted speculatively on top of that, causing oversupply. There is now a supply glut and the values are down to parity with F1 transmission cars (at least for the 430).

 

Can anyone link one of these converted cars that Haggerty is suggesting sold at a 20%+ discount compared to a similarly spec'd F1? I'll even be curious to see a current listing that's below market value for an F1. I can certainly see supply catching up to demand as you've suggested, but I just don't think it's to the point where it's causing a negative impact to the value. I can certainly see it being worth less than the cost of a turn key conversion and I could speculate that the costs of the conversions were taken into account when Haggerty stated their values, but I'm just not seeing the discount. Doing a quick search in the usual spots, it's even difficult just to find a converted car anywhere close to the average value. Just on Autotrader, the cheapest converted car is listed for $199k.



Side note, I didn't think I'd ever hear the words "supply glut" associated with Ferrari, lol.

 

From last month - 14k mile car in great shape went for $133k - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-ferrari-f430-18/

From December (admittedly lower market than now), 1 accident converted 19k mile coupe barely cracked $100k - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2007-ferrari-f430-34/

Most of the discounted transactions are occurring on auction sites, not via private sale where sellers have unrealistic expectations based on prices 18+ months ago.

 

The $133k car was a horrible seller that dodged any question of substance, but with the buyer’s premium that’s still at least $20k above a comparable F1 car.

The Grigio Silverstone car had an accident so not a great comp imo.

Maybe hagerty means a discount versus the $35k turn key quote to convert one?

 

That $102K car was in very poor condition. Just a quick look at the pics and I can see surface corrosion though the paint and other indicators of a car I wouldn't touch with a 100-meter pole.

 

I understand your analogy, but it doesn't quite fit. For example I converted my 355 I converted my f355 years ago, it is 100% exactly the same as a factory gated car. There was no cutting, no aftermarket parts, simply remove the F1 components and installed OEM parts in its place.
Obviously a fake Rolex is well, completely aftermarket junk.

Having said that, my understanding is .. some... of these 430s are converted with aftermarket parts which I would agree, that in my opinion would not be as good as an oem part car. But still far from an completely fake watch

As far as values, a converted car will never be equal to a factory car. I don't think anybody thinks that?. But it will most likely always be worth more then a f1 of equal respect.

My 355 sold for about 60% more than an f1, roughly about 80% of what it factory gated 355 would have sold for

 

I understand your analogy, but it doesn't quite fit. For example I converted my 355 I converted my f355 years ago, it is 100% exactly the same as a factory gated car. There was no cutting, no aftermarket parts, simply remove the F1 components and installed OEM parts in its place.
Obviously a fake Rolex is well, completely aftermarket junk.

Having said that, my understanding is .. some... of these 430s are converted with aftermarket parts which I would agree, that in my opinion would not be as good as an oem part car. But still far from an completely fake watch

As far as values, a converted car will never be equal to a factory car. I don't think anybody thinks that?. But it will most likely always be worth more then a f1 of equal respect.

My 355 sold for about 60% more than an f1, roughly about 80% of what it factory gated 355 would have sold for

 

I'm glad I converted my car with 99% factory parts