Ferrari Enzo #399 of #399

Joe, I have always wondered about this, if you say every Enzo has a plaque that shows "399 Limited Production", what does the plaque say in the additional 98 cars is it the same, is there even a plaque in the additional cars?

 

I will simplify it even more then for you Joe.

Ferrari initially decide to build 399 Enzo's and so allocate 399 chassis numbers, lets call them 1 to 399 for now.

Again logic dictates that regardless of which order these 399 chassis are assembled and allocated a build number then all 399 will still also have a chassis number from these initial 1 to 399.

Marcel tells us that at least 497 Enzo's were actually really built, and the car bearing the plaque 399/399 has the highest chassis number of these 497 therefore its chassis cannot have come from the initial 399 allocation, therefore it cannot be 399 of 399.

Regardless of the fervent belief by some that Ferrari can do no wrong, can do what they like and must never be questioned, even they cannot re write basic maths.

Even as they were sticking that onto the car Ferrari knew 496 lower chassis numbers had already been allocated to the Enzo run. It was simply a marketing exercise to end the run officially and at the time the internet sleuths did not have the ammo to prove far more Enzo's than 399 had been built than claimed.

Not that difficult to understand for everyone else.

 

Its mentioned early in the thread that all the Enzo's have the 399 plaque, so Ferrari will have had made 490 odd of them at the time!

 

It’ll be good if we can get access to the full list of all the vins to show that 497+or- were actually made.

 

the myth: 399 = purchased assuming value X
the truth: 497 = diluted value LESS than X

deception? fraud?

,

 

Surely if one purchases a new car on assumed value then more fool you - the manufacturer charges what they think appropriate for the market - either put up or shut up - to call theoretically discounted afters fraud is really denying that these are fundamentally cars which should depreciate

 

except this was a stated limited edition of exactly 399.

.

 

They sold you an item at $x that would have 399 unit worldwide. I dont blame any owner if they had sued Ferrari to effectively only produce 399 of them or compensate owners due to deception.

But Ferrari being Ferrari, most owners either didn't know (esp back in 2001..2002) or didn't care. Doesn't make it right.

See f50gt history.

 

Agree. I personally wouldn't have cared. Would have just been happy to get one, BUT ......

.

 

In my database.
All confirmed with S/N, build date, completion date, colors, engine, gearbox, body numbers, name of dealer, first owner, etc.

Marcel Massini

 

That plaque or tag doesn't say 399/399, or 398/399, or 397/399. It says "399 limited production" and all cars have the same plaque/tag.
One cannot know if he has the 217th of 399, or the 135th of 399 or whatever.
This is all well known since almost twenty years.

Marcel Massini

 

Marcel, are you able to confirm if the 98 extra VIN number Enzo's directly prior to this cars own one were actually built before or after its build date?

This would debunk the post production claims of the additional cars over and above the 399 if they were assembled prior.

 

Never met one of the fabled 98.

Incorrect.

Marcel tells us "141920 is the highest chassis number for any Enzo" https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147998832/ and chassis number 141920 has nothing to do with Enzo 399/399 the subject of this thread.

The chassis number of Enzo 399/399 is 139305, not 141920.

Not that difficult to understand.

 

139305 is the 496th built by chassis number sequence.
Assembly #56230.
30 August 2004 build start.
25 November 2004 completed.
Engine 86761.
Gearbox 506.
Body 337.
New to Samocar SpA Rome.

Marcel Massini

 

I personally don't find it difficult to understand. Ferrari just had multiple runs. One was announced and limited to 399 and the other unannounced and not limited to a specific number. An Enzo is an Enzo so it makes no difference to values especially if the owners consider them the same. Now with the Internet its likely they don't need to know. Kind of like the firing squad where one of the shooter has blanks. Each can believe they are the one.

 

So why do all 498 wear "1 of 399" Plaques, fitted by Ferrari when all were built?

Anyway Marcel has now confirmed above this car is number 496 of the run and not 399

 

Just to clarify, what a fantastic car regardless, and one any Ferrari enthusiast would love to own and enjoy.

I believe there is no doubt this example was the one Ferrari presented to its first owner as "the last of the official run of 399", but it is now clear that was not the case.

I hope all parties in the most recent transactions did their full due diligence and were all aware of the actual facts at that time, but it would appear maybe not in some cases.

 

Again: They do NOT wear a plaque stating "1 of 399". The plaque they wear says "399 Limited Production". That is NOT the same meaning.
See also post 161.

Marcel Massini

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I’m sorry to add to any confusion, but one thing is still unclear to me. Did the cars that were produced beyond the initial 399 number also have this plaque installed in them?

 

Yes.

Marcel Massini

 

Thank you. Than, in that case, it’s deceptive. Does it alter the value of any of them in my opinion? No. My guess is, they planned on producing 399 and changed there minds because demand was high and there top clients were clamoring for them. As Joe said, they can do whatever they want. It doesn’t change anything as far as I’m concerned, but it’s still deceptive.

 

I'm pretty sure they knew from the get go they would make more since that is what happened with the 288, F40 and then F50.

For the 288 and F40 it was publicly announced. For the F50, it wasnt and nobody complained (except for the F50GT..).

 

No.
On Tuesday 21 July 1987 at 11 a.m. I personally attended the press conference in Maranello and Fiorano introducing the F40.
At the actual press conference in the building where today the museum is they initially stated 400 units will be built. An hour later we all went over to the track in Fiorano where they showed us two F40s and we all took a gazillion photos. While at Fiorano Dr. Franco Gozzi, Enzo Ferrari's press officer stated 600 units will be built. After the photo shooting in Fiorano everybody went to Ristorante Cavallino for an extensive Italian lunch. During the dessert Gozzi stated they will probably build 800 units.
All in one day, from 400 to 600 and then to 800 units. And in the end it was something like 1'315 F40s.
And the F40 was never announced as a limited production car (maybe by some uninformed journalists but not by the factory).

Marcel Massini

 

I am just a lurker on this thread, but find it very interesting. I very much appreciate the extensive knowledge of Marcel, Joe and others. I would love to have an Enzo irregardless of how many were made or where mine fell in the sequence.

I do have a question just out of curiosity that I don’t think has been explicitly answered in the thread. I apologize if it has and I missed it. I will not hide that this question is aimed at Marcel and his extensive database.

If we order the 497 Enzos by the completion date (not by chassis number), where does 139305 fall in that sequence?

 

139305 (the 496th) is the second last completed (date is 25 November 2004). Assembly number 56230.
141920 (the 497th) is the last one completed by date (28 July 2005). Assembly number 59050.

Marcel Massini