Ferrari Competizione GT cars (1989-20xx) market | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Competizione GT cars (1989-20xx) market

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by tomgt, Nov 24, 2018.

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  1. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    You can have AF C refurbish your car, but it costs more
    If you have 8000-10000km on the engine....it might need a rebuild.
    For a complete refurbished car, o mileage on the engine, gearbox and a repaired chassis, resprayed, new livery. So brand new “old” car add 150-200k euro ex vat depending who does the rebuild.
     
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  2. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
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    Well even if I havent understood the true motivation behind this thread I try to give you a few insights as you mentioned to be a fan. I'm a Owner, humble Collector and Racer of the mentioned Cars and I like to answer honest questions to real and true fans as I see myself very privileged to own and race those beautiful cars and to share my passion with others. I'm not willing to discuss pricings or if a price is serious or not because if someone pays it, it is serious - always. I'm not a broker nor a dealer who try to hide but in this thread so many outrageous misinformations have been spread I thought I try to contribute a bit from a real owner and not someone who just heard about something. I'm one of those crazy petrolheads who picks up the bill after a race weekend.

    I race for AF Corse as a genuine Gentlemen Racer, I'm not a Pro, I'm getting close to my 50ths and I started racing in 2016. 2018 I won the Route to Le Mans in GT3 and became Vice Champion of the Championship. I just enjoy racing and Cars. All Cars I race are my own, I buy the Car and I pay the maintenance, the team, the mechanics, the hospitality, the coach, etc. etc. I own a 458 GTE, 488 GT3 and a Ferrari Formula 1 from 2013 ex Felipe Massa. I think I know a bit about running costs and car values... first of all, I think it is in the owners and only in the owners own decision power if he wants to communicate the price he has paid for the car. you simply CANT compare the same pricing sheme of street cars with race cars. the value of a race car is a summary of his race history (results, races, drivers etc), his rarety and how important the car for some brand histories could be. and I can tell you, damage history plays a very very minor role, not like street cars. For a street car its easy, you compare realistic market pricing as the 2014 458 Italia with 25K miles with the 2015 458 Italia with 20K miles in terms of condition and pricing. but can you compare a 2014 458 GTE Pro Le Mans Winner with a 2014 458 GTE who was never used for racing just for track days? no.... not possible as the LM Winner will be much more expensive than the Trackday car and it will probably be in much worse condition. Just have a look at todays price of a 1995 McLaren F1 GTR... the Ueno, or Harrods or even the Gulf Car...

    If I want to own a modern Formula 1 Car I can buy a Marussia F1 for a few hundred K euros and run it with a Judd or Cosworth Engine. If - like it is in my case - I want to own and drive a Genuine Ferrari F1 I need to pay more. is it a "better" Car? depending on your view. if you just want to drive a fast single seater, get a GP2, if you want to drive a F1, get a backmarker car, but if you want the real deal, you need to open the pocket.. some modern F1's trade for 300K, some others for 7Millions as there is a reason why someone pays 28 Millions for a painting or 50 Millions for a 250 GTO which costs you 6K USD in 1965 or so. History, rarety and availability and sure - demand.

    Coming back to the discussed cars here, its somehow pointless to discuss a price of a car 13 years ago, even 5 years ago. I got an F40 offered for 250K in 2005, same car is now 1M, Apple Stock Price was 6 USD in 2005, today is about 170 USD and I still blame my father not bought that land for 50 EUR Sqm as it is 3000 today....some rare cars are much more worth than others simply because of their history and how much this history is worth for others. there is just 1 Car who won the 24h of Le Mans in 2014 in GTE Pro, there is one Person out there who owns this car, and he decides the price, no one else. and he needs just one buyer who wants to buy it.

    I could race for much less if I would race Lambo or Mercedes, but why I race with Ferrari? because I want and I can. And if someone wants this damn 2014 Le Mans Winner in his Collection and if he CAN, he will get it because there is only ONE car.

    So there are different lets say "Categories" of older Race Cars and different motivations to buy one. If you want to complete your collection - history is the most important thing, no matter the condition of the car, yes even best would be the car wasnt touched after the race and came out of the Parc Ferme at Le Mans.
    but if you just want to own a Ferrari Race Car and use it from time to time, you dont care much about History - so you care about latest updates, engine and gearbox milage and running costs. As a Collector you want to "smell" the history and to know that you are the only one who owns this specific car. and if there are more people who wants that specific Le Mans GTE Pro Car, the Price will rise. and some Ferrari race cars are now eligible for some Historic Races like Masters or Le Mans Classics, or Monaco Historic Grand Prix and those Cars have all an amazing History and still getting loved and used...so as more rare something is, as higher the price will get.

    and finally, if you race all those mentioned cars, the buying price is the last thing that should scare you.....
     
  3. Fernardi

    Fernardi Karting

    Dec 1, 2012
    86
     
  4. Fernardi

    Fernardi Karting

    Dec 1, 2012
    86
    That chrixxx... is the most comprehensive, most open, most honest and transparent post I have ever read on here. Most are based on selling something for a profit with claims of “how innocent and pure am I”.
    Thank you. It’s about time someone stood up and said it how it is.
    It is clear that a) you are a man with passion for the brand (let’s be honest, we know who you are and I for one doff my cap for your enthusiasm and passion) b) you know what you are talking about c) you can appreciate that something is worth more to person 1 than it is to person 2 and d) actually, you are... just a fan. Which means I like you a lot. No BS. Too much of that on here and I for one can appreciate an owner putting their head above the parapet and say their piece... unusual, no bull sh^t and honest.
    Chrixxx, Thank you. To the other precious traders... they know who they are... hang your “better than you and know it all” heads for personal profit...... keep selling what you do. Enjoy it why you can.
     
  5. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Agreed. Good post Chris.

    “.... nor a dealer who try to hide”
    We already have too many in this thread.
    I have nothing to hide. My name is Tom Wiggers. No alias.
    They do not like the correct pricing info some here give where teams sell their cars for.
    Only their info is correct and their cars are the best. Some brokers/dealers sell complete sh! te cars.

    Anyone can ask Amato or an owner of a race car (jmw, ferri, risi, kessel etc) if he wants to sell a car.

    Forza Ferrari!

    Now back to the topic! :)
     
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  6. stradleboy

    stradleboy Formula Junior

    May 14, 2006
    535
    Miami
    Full Name:
    Bennett
    I for one do not understand the hostile nature that has developed on here. I am merely trying to protect the integrity of cars and the market. Many numbers that have been put on here as fact, are from people with no relation to the cars and are gaining information third and fourth hand. If you have first-person knowledge and someone is ok with you posting that, I see no issues. Third and fourth person accounts of I heard something, help no one and only perpetuate incorrect information, which only hurts the brand as a whole. We have sold and maintain many cars that we simply can not disclose such information due to contractual obligations. This does not stop us from sharing these cars with the public in many ways.

    The second point that truly perplexes me is the hostility towards dealers and people who make their living with these cars. As one of those people, I would argue I am every bit as passionate as any regular owner as I have committed my life to protect and preserve the history of this fabled mark we all love. Keep in mind it is dealers like us that continue to put on and support the events that enable people to truly enjoy these racing cars.
     
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  7. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Mr Logan, in you perception it might be hostile.
    Some dealers just are posting incorrect info themselves.
    Why tell others that they are wrong where they need to look in the mirror.

    If an asking price is known, what problem one could have what the buying price was.
    As with many products people know what profit is being made. No problem with that.
    For me: Over inflated prices.

    Only the best of the best GTs will keep their value and probably increase.
     
  8. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    there is no race development ongoing nor even started for the F8. At the end, the F8 is a 488 with new clothes, same chassis, same engine. maybe some of the Aero can be used for Updgrades but if you want to have a F8 GT3 now on the market the development would have start one year ago. the 488 has still alot of unused potential.
    the all new GTE/GT3 will come 2021
     
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  9. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    I personally have the deepest respect of every dealer buying and selling cars and make a living out of it. you take a huge risk, especially with not everyday cars as this all belongs to hobbys of some petrolheads like me. we all could stop that, we dont need it for living but the dealers do. and they take the risks with buying the cars, the spareparts, the trucks, building showrooms, workshops with their own money, they hiring staff and invest into their specific education and training. What I PERSONALLY avoid to deal with are Brokers, but this is my own decision and must not be valid for others.
     
  10. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    Thank you very, very much for your kind words, highly appreciate it....yes I'm a fan, like others. always was. I just try to explain my point of view based on my experience. Must not be the one and only truth or the best way. :)
     
  11. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    I agree with you on F dealers, Service dealers and dealers like Kessel with own racing dept.
    Also DK is huge one in the industry who hire technicians from race teams in the UK even though they are not a F dealer.
    They deliver the best cars (also F40 servicing)

    Brokers or car flippers are a different league.
     
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  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    There are good dealers and the bad dealers who just buy cars without really inspecting them properly and just sell poor cars, bought without expertise, and with issues with a high mark up.

    The good dealers spend a lot of time, effort and money seeking out good cars and preparing them correctly for sale to the new owner, whereas the bad just present the cars they bought without any expertise, as they bought them, without any preparation either.

    There are people like DK Engineering, who have a deserved and well earned good reputation, and others who have been around for quite some time who are just in it to take as much profit as they can and the customer has no benefit whatsoever for paying a retail mark up with no added value in the wholesale to retail difference in price. I think this is what is being spoken against in this thread.
     
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  13. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Now this is a dealer!
    https://www.corseestrada.com/service-offering/competizione/

    Superb restorations of the Michelotto built GT cars by Michelotto themselves, not by a 'local' shop.
    They sold quite a few 430GTs already and sold the 333SP 027 to the USA.

    IMHO there is no other party to fully restore these GT cars to "NEW" than Padova, period.
     
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  14. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    600.000 euro ex VAT

    What it traded next when shipped to the UK.....who knows..
    As you know more about this car Mr Logan, was it sold as is in AM spec 2017 or completely refurbished by AF Corse to Pro spec 2016? You know there is a difference between Pro and AM.
     
  15. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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  16. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #2440 is offered for sale at 345.900 USD per March 2019.
     
  17. StregaP

    StregaP Karting

    Feb 21, 2011
    78
     
  18. StregaP

    StregaP Karting

    Feb 21, 2011
    78
    well written Chris...have fun this year and a big hello to Mediani if he is still with you...IlDottore
     
  19. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
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    Ciao Dottore! Yes we do Le Mans Cup again! Just finished first Tests in Paul Ricard

    and you? Sports Club again or Blancpain Sprint?
     
  20. StregaP

    StregaP Karting

    Feb 21, 2011
    78
    I would like to do both but need a good bronze with budget to help....GTSC to defend 2 titles for sure,though!! En boca al lupo caro amico!!! IlDottore
     
  21. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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  22. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    For future reference

    Description
    The Ferrari F430 shared its aluminum chassis with the 360 that preceded it, but its Pininfarina-penned styling charted a new course for Maranello. The F430 channeled Ferrari’s past designs with taillights from the Enzo, Testarossa-like side mirrors that stretched out from its A-pillars, and ducts integrated into its sides and front fascia akin to 1960s Formula 1 cars. Pininfarina’s Frank Stephenson is credited with the F430’s striking design.

    Though its styling was eye-catching, the F430’s big newsmaker at its debut at the 2004 Geneva Motor Show was under its glass engine cover. The F430 marked the first use of Ferrari’s new dual overhead camshaft, 32-valve V-8 engine, codenamed F136 E. The 90-degree V-8 was co-developed with Maserati, but Maranello’s version got its own 180-degree flat-plane crankshaft. Chain-driven camshafts replaced rubber belts in the automaker’s previous eight-cylinder. The new, modern V-8 was the first clean-sheet design for Ferrari in about half a century. The new engine sent its approximately 490 hp to the rear wheels via either a six-speed manual transmission or the automaker’s six-speed F1 gearbox.

    It did not take long for Ferrari to take the wraps off a GT2 racing version of the F430. Developed with longtime racing partner Michelotto Automobili, the F430 GTC was eligible for American Le Mans Series racing, the Le Mans Series, the FIA GT Championship, and even the 24 Hours of Le Mans!

    The F430 GTC made use of a downsized 4.0-liter version of the new V-8 in order to comply with FIA rules. The F430 GTC’s engine was rated at 470 hp, but its impressive power-to-weight ratio meant it was significantly faster than the 550-hp F430 GT3. A six-speed sequential-shift transmission put power to the wheels in rapid fashion.

    The F430 GTC featured a big rear wing with an integrated Gurney flap to enhance the design’s already impressive downforce plus carbon fiber body panels to reduce weight. Race cars rode on 18-inch center-lock lightweight wheels wrapped in Michelin racing slicks rather than the 19-inch wheels with Pirelli tires on street cars. While the road-going F430 debuted adjustable dampers could be tweaked via a knob on its steering wheel, the F430 GTC’s suspension retained garage-only adjustment. Noting the difference between the street F430 and the F430 GTC during a test at Miller Motorsports Park in Utah in 2012, Road & Track wrote that the two Ferraris “are like shades of red: in a similar family, yes, but totally different.”

    The F430 GTC got off to a strong start by winning the FIA GT2 Manufacturers’ Cup and Drivers’ title in 2006 and 2007, the ALMS GT2 Manufacturers’ Title in 2007, and it won the GT2 class at Le Mans in 2008. Ultimately, the F430 GTC made Ferrari a dominant force in GT racing, and this has continued with the 458 GT2 and 488 GTE. Including the 430 GTC prototype (chassis 2404) that is also owned by us, it is believed that approximately 53 examples were built in total.

    Specific history of this car:
    The featured car, chassis 2642 can seen as one of the very first Ferrari Works cars. It was entered by the Piacenza based team AF Corse of Amato Ferrari, who until today runs all the Ferrari Works cars in the WEC championship.

    The car was first entered in the 2009 FIA GT championship with the two star drivers Gianmaria Bruni and Toni Vilander. Bruni today is known as one of the most successful GT drivers ever!

    Date Event Drivers Result
    ___________________________________________________________
    7 Apr 2009 FIA GT Test Paul Richard Bruni/Vilander unknown

    3 May 2009 Tourist Trophy Silverstone Bruni/Vilander 11th

    16 May 2009 FIA GT Adria Bruni/Vilander 2nd

    21 Jun 2009 FIA GT Oschersleben Bruni/Vilander 1st

    26 Jul 2009 24h Spa-Francorchamps Bruni/Vilander/Melo/Perez-Companc 1st

    30 Aug 2009 FIA GT Hungaroring Bruni/Vilander 2nd

    20 Sep 2009 FIA GT Algarve Bruni/Vilander 6th

    4 Oct 2009 FIA GT Paul Richard Bruni/Vilander 1st

    After the 2009 season Ferrari - AF Corse won the Team Championship as well as the Manufacturers Cup with #2642. A huge success for Ferrari and drivers Bruni/Vilander!

    For 2010 and 2011 the car was mainly entered in the very popular International and Italian GT Championship:

    18 Apr 2010 Int. GT Open Valencia Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 22nd, Race 2: 14th

    25 Apr 2010 Italian GT Misano Aguas/Garafano Race 1: 6th, Race 2: DNF

    2 May 2010 Int. GT Open Nürburgring Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 14th, Race 2: 17th

    9 May 2010 Italian GT Vallelunga Aguas/Garafano Race 1: 1st, Race 2: 3rd

    23 May 2010 Int. GT Open Imola Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 17th, Race 2: 20th

    6 Jun 2010 Italian GT Magione Aguas/Garafano Race 1: 5th, Race 2: 1st

    27 Jun 2010 Int. GT Open Spa Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 11th, Race 2: 9th

    4 Jul 2010 Italian GT Imola Cadei/Garafano Race 1: 3rd, Race 2: DNF

    11 Jul 2010 Int. GT Open Magny-Cours Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 9th, Race 2: 10th

    25 Jul 2010 Italian GT Mugello Cadei/Garafano Race 1: 7th, Race 2: DNF

    19 Sep 2010 Int. GT Open Brands Hatch Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 11th, Race 2: 8th

    26 Sep 2010 Italian GT Vallelunga Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: DNF, Race 2: DNF

    3 Oct 2010 Int. GT Open Monza Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 12th, Race 2: 8th

    24 Oct 2010 Italian GT Monza Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 2nd, Race 2: DNF

    31 Oct 2010 Int. GT Open Barcelona Talkanitsa/Talkanitsa Race 1: 13th, Race 2: DNF

    21 Nov 2010 6h Vallelunga Mapelli/Garafano/Rangoni 1st

    1 May 2011 Int. GT Open Imola Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 2nd, Race 2: DNF

    15 May 2011 Int. GT Open Magny Cours Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 7th, Race 2: 5th

    26 Jun 2011 Int. GT Open Spa Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: DNF, Race 2: 3rd

    24 Jul 2011 Int. GT Open Brands Hatch Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 7th, Race 2: 2nd

    28 Aug 2011 Int. GT Open Zeltweg Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 4th, Race 2: 9th

    18 Sep 2011 Int. GT Open Algarve Rangoni/Garafano Race 1: 6th, Race 2: 15th

    After its active, professional racing career the car was sold by AF Corse to an amateur racer and collector. The car was then mainly used for club racing or track days within Europe. It was subsequently restored back to its 2009 championship winning spec and underwent the Ferrari Classiche certification program.

    The car will now be sold with a very interesting and valuable spares package, the Ferrari Classiche red book and well as some period documentation.

    This is a rare opportunity to purchase a real piece of Ferrari racing history that is also eligible for the Ferrari Club Competizioni GT, the Masters series of the Peter Auto series only to mention a few.

    More questions than answers no?
     
  23. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #2628 Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  24. sicopa2000

    sicopa2000 Rookie

    Apr 12, 2007
    38
    Spain
    Hello,
    One of the 360 GT #2026 is for sale!

    "The car we are offering here, chassis 2026, is one of only 20 360 GT’s built by Michelotto Automobili for Ferrari Spa. Cristiano Michelotto himself has confirmed this car to have been delivered new to Steve Goldman in California, USA, in 2002.

    Goldman, a resident of Malibu, California, is an engineer by training, and was the CEO of a high-tech company for many years, but in the early 2000’s found his way into motorsport and bought this Ferrari 360 GT to compete in events, and sparingly at track days. In August 2003, Goldman raced this car at the California Speedway, qualifying first and finishing third in class. A year later, again at the California Speedway, he qualified second and finished 3rd overall. Goldman also allowed Bob Faieta, team owner of Competition Motorsport and American Le Mans Series driver enter the car into small club events.

    With Goldman, this Ferrari 360 GT joined a sizeable collection of competition and sports for about 6 years, before crossing the States to reside in Florida with Jason Owen in Florida. Contained within the history file of this 360 GT are copies of many invoices for regular maintenance work performed by Ferrari and Lamborghini specialists, Rosso Corsa in Jupiter, Florida.

    In January 2011, this 360 GT entered the world-renowned Palm Bach Cavallino Classic XX, where it was awarded Platinum in Class 6 in the Concorso d’Eleganza. To receive a Platinum award, the car must score higher than 95 points after judging.

    The maintenance invoices from Rosso Corsa in Florida document an engine rebuild in 2017 and 2018. Since this rebuild, the car has not returned to the track, instead it has been carefully stored, and is today presented in exceptional condition, a true testament to the limited use it has seen. The car is offered with a spare set of BBS magnesium wheels and slick tyres, OMP passenger seat (so you can share the on-track experience) and spare 360 GT engine (without auxiliaries).

    This car is eligible for the Ferrari Club Competizioni GT series, Aston Martin Masters Endurance Legends, Peter Auto Endurance Racing Legends and Challenge & GT Days. These series offer you the opportunity to easily enjoy your even-numbered Ferrari competition car on track, just where it belongs. In July 2020, Peter Auto will be offering the Endurance Racing Legends series the opportunity to compete at the Le Mans Classic event, don’t you want to be racing your newly acquired Ferrari 360 GT around the most famous circuit in the world?

    £235,000

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/109216/2002-ferrari-360-gt
     
  25. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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