Still keeping a lookout for a nice car.... Chaps, ignoring whether or not this is the right thing to do, is it actually possible to swap 400 wheels onto a 365? I assume this is not possible the bolt pattern is different. In which case, would the hubs need to be swapped from a 365 as well? Finally, is there any reason why the 365 tends to trade at a premium to the 400 series? Perhaps the answer is that the 400/412 series is associated with being an auto etc which has kept values lower whereas the 365 is known purely as a manual? If this is the case, why is the 365 generally more expensive than the equivalent 400GT carb manual?
One more question...for anyone who has driven both the 365 and the 400...is there a noticeable performance difference with the enlarged displacement engine of the 400? Is there a difference in the character of the engines? Any insight is appreciated
As you say, the wheels on a 365GT4 2+2 are knock-off wheels with centre spinners whilst a 400 wheel has five bolts (lugs) to hold it on. If you converted a 365 to take 400 wheels I think you would greatly reduce the value of the car. These wheels plus the 6 rear lights, six exhaust pipes (if still fitted), manual gearbox and 'mousehair' dash are what make the 365 worth more than a 400, They are also a lot rarer but finding a 5-speed 400 isn't going to be easy. Perhaps you could fill in your profile so we know which country you are based in.
car came out with more HP. was a bit faster. no rear air shocks. I have a set of 400 wire with spindles for a 400. Borrani make a set for the 365, just look on their site. they are available. my car was just overhauled stem to stern, still in process. want to purchase? $100,000
I have no idea regarding values, and for me it is not that important. I just want to say, though, that taste changes over time, and nothing is static. There have been big changes in taste in art over the years, as an example. English scenery painters were once in great demand, not so much today. And as for cars, some cars that used to be given and/or thrown away are now in great demand. So, enjoy what you have and make it run. If it is a Ferrari, of any description, it makes it rather rare in this modern world of conformity, production and consumption.
Hi, Driving regularly all from 365 GT4 2+2 to 412, I find that the difference in performance is hardly noticeable between these cars. However the difference in returned sensations is significant. The group 365 GT4 2+2 to 400i first series - which I drive - is on the (mild) "wild" side and the 400i second series and 412 is on the "flying carpet" side. Two 365 GT4 2+2 from 1973 with a similar mileage are different in sensations too. One sounds "wilder" than the other, but performances of both are (for me) the same. The 365 engine can easily pull to 7000rpm, which none of the engines on 400 to 412 can do. In my experience this makes the 365 more fun on twisty mountain roads compared to the others in the range (but of course mountain roads are not the natural habitat of these cars). Having said that, a 400 Auto in second gear on mountain roads is of course less foot work while still being fun (to be used reasonably, this is perhaps not too good for the gearbox). All these cars are an absolute joy to drive.
Thank you for the responses...It's very interesting that the 365 has a higher rev limit. Kaiser, of course you are correct that tastes change. I'm trying to establish what I should pay for one because prices are all over the place. Based on what I have learned in this thread, I personally view the 365 as more desirable than the 400. Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
However, my only concern is this and it won't be put to rest until I drive one. These cars are GTs. I can't see myself cruising around my town centre in one. I also can't see myself taking one town a twisty road for a weekend drive..I have other more capable cars for that. What i would use this car for is 50 mile plus journeys with my family. What is important on long journeys is refinement. I'm thinking the engine and road nose could get annoying. Maybe the 'magic carpet' series of cars is indeed the better option for me. Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
Indeed the range 365 GT4 2+2 to 412 is made for journeys with family, it has four true seats and a trunk to match. I have done 1000km+ trips in several of them, no issues other than healthy gas refills every 400km or so. The flying carpet group is of course a more comfortable option in that scenario.
The 365GT4 2+2 has a more sparse sport interior and weights a lot less according to the owners manuals ( 365GT4 3940 lb curb weight with oil, fuel, spare tire and tools, 400GT 4180 lb Dry, without oil, fuel, spare and tools.) giving it a more of a sports car feeling than the 400 series cars that were built more for the luxury market. The 365GT4 2+2 is basically a 365GTC/4 with usable rear seats. I have both cars and they are practically the same from the back of the front seats forward. I feel that the 365GT4 2+2 is the best buy in the Ferrari market today and expect prices to double within the next 4 years. With 365GTC4s bringing between $200,000 and $300,000 Thousand today and the 365GT4 2+2 only bringing about $60,000 the price has to go up when people realize they are nearly the same car with a different body shell. Chuck
I think the documentation on the respective weight of these cars is not too accurate. I weighted the ones I drive with the same imprecise tool (a single wheel weight scale) in the same conditions (all liquids at capacity, spare wheel, tools) and came to the conclusion that there is less than 30kg between the lightest of the group and the heaviest. This is covering 365 GT4 2+2 (2 cars), a 400 Auto, a 400i manual first serie, a 400i manual second serie and a 412 manual. I agree with Chuck. If I had to retain just one, it would be one of the 365 GT4 2+2's, but I would cry seeing the others go.
I have never had one on a scale, I am just going off of the factory owners manuals and we all know how Ferrari throws numbers around, so you are probably right. Chuck
My 365 weighs 4140 with me (220 lbs) in it and mostly full gas tank. The 365 engine spins faster and easier because its lower displacement is due to a shorter stroke. I don't understand why you think these cars would be suitable for twisty roads. I have a much more capable car also but to really take advantage of its abilities it would require probably at least doubling the speed limits. These cars handle quite well IMHO. PS, I would be willing to bet with modern light weight pistons and connecting rods the 400 would rev as easily as a stock 365.
my restore/rebuild shop installed dome pistons and bumped the compression to 11.5. internals spin balance. this should have an interesting result.
I agree 100% these cars are not made for twisty roads, however my house is in an area where there are only such roads, hence my feedback regarding the 365 vs the other models in the range.
Back to my earlier question...will 400 alloys fit into a 365 or with the entire hub need to be switched? Sent from my HTC One mini using Tapatalk
rovexienus, I agree with you and have a similar set of cars to play with and live with a whole state full of fantastic drivers roads (see Targa Tasmania). akjim is just as correct too. What the discussion seems to miss is these cars are 4 seaters and whilst the driver might like to be playful in the twisties, the passengers generally don't like it. I usually take the passenger via the highway and return via the twisties but for enjoyment take other cars more suitable for the task by myself (those that have experienced a big valve twin cam 7 will know what I mean). We don't have cities as you know them in Tassie so an auto is no real advantage but ultimately it is what suits your particular circumstances at the time. For me I can't justify the price difference between a 400GT and a 365GT4, but I also have a 365GTC/4 and the shape justifies the price, in fact I still think they are very good value. The manual 400's even more so.
I do not think there is an adapter to mount 5 bolts rims on a car such as 365 GT4 2+2, so I believe a number of parts would have to be changed on the 365 to accept these rims. The opposite scenario (mounting 365 GT4 2+2 wheels on a 400) has a Borrani adapter for it.
I agree completely that passengers' motivation may not match that of the driver on twisty roads, unless the passengers are looking for it and the experience is brief. Indeed difficult to think why a 365GT4 would be more valuable than a 400 Carb manual.
I think the reason for the 365GT4 2+2 being more desirable is that when you set down in it and drive away you feel like you are in a Ferrari sports car rather than a luxury sedan. Here in the USA it is like the difference between an early Chevrolet Camaro Z28 you would buy and a stock Camaro that your sister would buy. I have had a couple of 400GT's and a 400 Automatic and the difference is mostly in your mind, but I still have my 365GT4 and I don't have the 400's As for the price difference between the 365GTC/4 and the 365GT4, when I drive the two cars it is hard to tell the difference, I bought both cars over ten years ago, so the price difference doesn't mean much to me because I bought both cars for under $25,000 each Chuck
Most of this post is pure rubbish. I do not believe that you have actually driven all of these cars. If you had then you would know that any of them with auto transmissions is no fun whatever on mountain roads, that the five speed manuals is what makes all of them something other than freeway cruisers. You would also know that there is no point in trying to spin any of these engines to 7000 rpm since they develop max power at 6200 rpm (my 412GT @ 6000rpm) and they are redlined at 6500. In a road car there's no point whatever in running 800-1000rpm past the point of max power and running to 7000 will result in a very expensive engine rebuild, assuming the engine block is not totally destroyed. Rubbish.
Chuck, are you saying that the 400GT 5-speed manual feels less like a Ferrari sports car than a 365GT4 2+2? If so, in what way?
