Ferrari 328/348 vs. Lotus Elise

If a speedometer needle played a role, in part or whole, in your decision on whether to get a 3X8 or an Elise, then you're probably better off without the Ferrari anyway...

The ill-tempered Ferraris of the '80s have so many things an Elise (or any other Lotus) could never replicate... The sight, the sound, the feel - it's the whole package... Even that faint smell of oil when you open the rear deck lid after a long, hot drive... The metallic click of the gearshift, the beat-up, baseball glove-conditioned leather seats that catch you EVERY time you hit that gas and the sultry whine of the engine through the exhaust when you climb past 5 and 6 thousand RPMs... The "double-hug" you get from a Ferrari in the middle of a tight corner... These are things no manufacturer can replicate or reproduce... The needle hardly seems like an issue at all when compared to bigger experiences that ooze that distinct, unmistakable Ferrari signature...

With that said, the Elise is an awesome car and i hope to be able to drive one someday... They look like LOTS of fun... Congratulations on your purchase...

 

Well, I recently acquired another 328 after considering an Elise ...

The Elise drives wonderfully, particularly with both the sports & touring packs and the "Stage 2" exhaust (which gets rid of that weenie Toyota engine sound).

The Elise drives quantum better with the sports pack, which is lighter wheels, bigger tires, better brakes/suspension. You will probably have a hard time test-driving an Elise at a dealership, but trust me that the difference here is significant.

However it is ridiculous to get in or out of. You can do it (I am 6'), but it is definitely a yoga maneuver. Forget it if you're a girl wearing a dress/skirt. Best way to get in:

Move seat all the way back.
Sit on edge.
Right leg in.
Supporting body with hands on edge, move rump onto seat.
Left leg in.
Adjust seat forward so you can reach pedals.

To get out, reverse the sequence.

Beyond that it pretty much boils down to a personal decision if you like the Lotus or the Ferrari "atmosphere" and car-culture.

 

Carridge

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That said, I agree with your point, the Elise is a great car, very much a modern interpretation of the Dino (although giving Ferrari credit here is a little misguided, Colin Champman was the champion of small and light).

As to whether Ferrari would/should make a similar car, judging by their current lineup, they are certainly moving in the other direction. Now there is talk of a new Dino, but I would be surprized and impress if Ferrari could even break 3000lbs, nevermind 2500lbs and it would still cost twice as much.

It does make a nice alternative to a 3x8, every bit as exotic, but more dependable.

 

The Elise is a toy. It is a big Go-Kart.
These statements not meant to be put downs, it is just what is so.
Elise is brilliant at the track, even without Sport Package ($2480).
The cars stays with big-time cars at the track except on long straights.
The Elise may be what you want, but I suggest you spend lots of time at EliseTalk.com and gain familiarity with the issues.
There are 60-3000 mile Elise cars for sale all over the place, and there is a reason. It is not for everyone. Many bought for sexy looks and find them unlivable for daily drivers.
The good news is this: cars that were selling for $5000 over MSRP are now being discounted $2500 by some dealers. Very low mile used pristine cars can be had for $5000-$10,000 savings. Prices hovering around $40-$42k, depending on options and milage.
Sport Pack suspension is generally agreed to be too harsh for street driving.
Speedo error is reportedly 9%.
Re. Heat. Early cars, upto VIN 2200 have dual oil coolers. Those after only have 2 coolers if the car has Sport Package.
Owners are reporting front and rear clam damage from the slightest engagement with terra firma or iron. Even parking lot engagements are running $8000-$20,000. Plastic does not get repaired, it gets replaced and seems to be a sellers market. SUV backing up don't see the 44 inch high Elise.

 

By whose/what standards...? Can you expound on that...?

LMAO...!

 

One of my friends, a member here, has had an '89 328 GTB for several years and sold his Elise after only a few months. Maybe he'll chime in but he doesn't have any regrets.

 

Sport Pack consists of firmer springs and shocks, plus wider tires of softer compound ie more grip.
SP owners report that bumpy sections of freeway are not tolerable with SP. Great for track.
The elegant solution seems to be: keep the wider, softer compound tires and change out dampers/springs to single adjustable Nitrons or double adjustable Ohlins. Firm things up for the track. Buick ride when touring.
Jack of this board is the best authority on Elise that I know. He has many miles of both touring and track time. He has also driven all the suspensions.
Jack, jump in here.

 

Three things:
1) What are you going to do with her? Is she going to be street driven or tracked?;
2) Right now you are comparing apples and oranges. The Lotus is extremely light and doesn't have the hp vs the Fcars. Not that the lack of hp matters: getting the most outof the least is what Lotus has made its reputation on, and is extremely good at it. Who else can make a car go so fast for so little hp?
3)Ferrari is thinking about making a more affordable line of cars pretty soon to be badged the Dino. I don't know much about them, but they seem to be going after the market that the Elises are in. I'm sure there is more about it somewhere here in Fchat.

Good Luck!!!

 

Well said......

 

The other thing to remember too is that your paying MORE for that Elise then a 328 or 348 ON THE AVERAGE. Owning that Elise for 5 years will cost you more in depreciation then the Ferrari will cost you in maintenance. And since maintenance on Elise and depreciation on a 328/348 are next to nothing, we'll just cancel those out. You'll lose 10-20K in the next 2 years on that car depending on what kind of deal you got. Conversely, take that extra 15K you would have saved on the 348 and throw a twin turbo in it and measure those performance specs...

Like NNO said, a lot on the plus side of Ferrari that isnt about 0-60 and the quarter mile...otherwise we would all be driving suupped up Mustang Cobras.

 

To me the main reason of buying a Ferrari is its styling. The shape that no other cars had. The line of the 328 or 308 is forever beautyful. I enjoy staring at it as much as I enjoy driving it. However, as for being a great car?, there are a lot out there to match the quality of the 328 or 308. The Elise is far more reliable and the performance is much better. The Porsche and other Janpaness supercars can match and better the Ferrari in nearly every field these days. But they are not Ferrari. To me at the end of the day, what I found out about cars hobby is the beauty of it that I really fall in love. I think people pay $10 million for the Ferrari 250 GTO not because of its performance. I have one performance car, the Lotus Esprit and that's it, I don't need more. But I can never have enough of the beautyful cars....... Ferrari 250 GTO, Ferrari 250 GT California, Duesenberg Model J, Bugatti Royal, Jaguar XJ120,...

 

Yea!

 

I've test driven two Lotus Elise cars at the dealer, at least one of them had the sports suspension package upgrade. I too was smitten with these cars initially, especially during the 12 month wait for them to actually get to North America. A dealer will let you test drive the car if you demonstrate greater knowledge of the vehicle than they and you come across as a serious buyer.

Comparing a 328 and Elise is impossible as they are two very different driving experiences. I agree that the Elise is made to be a track car that can be driven on the street. The extra firm suspension and spartan interior is great but only if that is what you really want. The fact that it is a pain to literally climb in and climb out adds to the track feel of the car. It is raw and uncompromising as a car. I love that. And it is absolutely best on the corners.

So here are my complaints. I find it underpowered, making it more a go kart than a car. I have my doubts about the quoted 0-60 times of under 5 seconds. I've driven an Audi S4 with twin turbo V-6 that quotes similar acceleration, and that car pushes you against the seat leaving butterflies in your stomach when you floor it. The Elise doesn't deliver those G forces. Even at highway speed, when I downshifted and hit the gas, sure the engine made a lot of noise but the car just didn't surge forward like I expected. Now maybe I'm just not driving it right, but I have been driving a Toyota engine and manual transmission on a TRD suspension package for years, so I don't think that is the problem.

As far as Elise reliability compared to Ferrari, you guys are giving the Elise way too much credit. Have you forgotten it is a Lotus? Yes, it's under warranty... for 2 years. Then what? Most of the maintenance requires removal of body panels to access mechanical components, so it likely will need a Lotus certified mechanic. And I know of at least one owner of both a 328 and an Elise who was happy with his Ferrari for years as it delivered what he expected from the car, but sold his Elise within 6 months of ownership because of multiple return trips to the dealer for various mechanical problems. Maybe he had a lemon. But if he was this unhappy with warranty covered repairs, what about when the warranty expires (soon)? These cars are not proven yet. The Federal Elise is different in many ways from the European earlier versions that have been around for 5 years. Way too early to start praising its reliability.

 

I like the idea of an Elise. And I've seriously thought about buying one, though I'm not crazy about the styling. However, the more I read on the chat rooms (well, mostly e-talk), the less I'm rationally inclined to actually go through with it.

Still, it's interesting to read what the truly devoted are willing to put up with -- parts which fall off, A/C which dies by freezing, parts which distort in the heat, "splooge" which seeps from the bonded chassis (don't know who first used that term but it's brilliant ), batteries which leak acid all over the trunk, headlamps which burn and smoke in the sunlight, a rubber-sealed trunk which leaks, clam shells which need replacing at the slightest damage, etc, etc.

Some of this stuff is actually kind of refreshing for a modern day production car. Character and all that. But I think I understand why there are so many low-mileage Elises for sale all over the place.

All that said, I've driven the Elise, it's a ton of fun, and one of these days I'll probably wind up buying one against my better judgment!

 

Well I'd say I'm one of the very few who can actually answer this impartially as the owner of an Elise and also a 348. I've also driven practically every Elise variant there is, and also many Ferraris.

First of all, you can't compare the heavy Federal Elise to those we drive in Europe, especially the early S1 and S2 cars. These were much lighter, and faster than the Federal car. The Toyota engine makes up for this somewhat, but is very peaky and low in torque.

A modded Euro Elise (very common to mod them here) has mindblowing performance. My Elise blows my Ferrari 348 Spider away in all performance terms - handling, grip, feel, acceleration. Only in top speed is it slower. A 360CS or a 430 should (only just) beat it round a twisty track though I reckon. (My modded & lightened one is 245bhp and 730kg.)

The sports suspension is fine for UK roads. Assuming you get the same suspension that is, in the US.

The car does feel like a (very potent) go kart, but that's it's appeal.

Where my Ferrari scores over it is in terms of comfort, and most of all, with the glorious sound that the Ferrari makes. Nothing else.

Just an honest opinion

 

I've had mine for 5 years.

Yes, I've had a mirror fall off. Many others have too.
I don't have A/C (adds weight!)
No factory fitted part distorted with heat
No splooge seeping
I had a leaky battery. Replaced under warranty.
No water leaks, boot (trunk) or elsewhere
No burning headlamps
About the clams..... well don't hit anything


Overall, it's pretty reliable for a handbuilt low volume sports car. Nothing I can't accept. It's never broken down on me, despite very hard use.

 

I weighed the Elise vs. the 348 option too, have to say the Elise won, but I ended up buying something completely different at the last minute

 

They're just totally different cars, and not truly comparable. But if I were ever forced to sell one of my two cars, it's the Ferrari that would go.

Having said that, in that case I'd probably prefer to sell both cars and replace them with a F430CS - as it's the 360CS and 430 which have especially impressed me in performance terms amongst Ferraris.

It's just a pity there are so many cars on the road with the 360/430 shape I'd have already bought one if this were not so.

 

LOTUS = Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious

Actually the Elise has a 3-year warranty, and a factory-blessed extended warranty is available through Lotus dealers for another 2 years.

The handling improvement of the "sports pack" is definitely worth any increase in the jounce factor. The sports pack transforms the handling of the car.

 

was a big jaguar collector, so the Lotus was a natural for me, always wanted a lotus europa or Elan but htey were really really bad cars...I test drove a Lotus turbo esprit and it was the most fun I ever had driving a sports car..unreal porshe turbo like but with a mid engine...the car was such crappy build condition though and I knew I would never ever be able to sell it... wound up going into maseratis (merak SS) and then once I got the itlaian bug I was on a slippery slope to ferrari where I am now...still.....that lotus was teh best drivers car I had, love the 3X8 series as well ...trying to stay as close as possible to that TRUE sportscar and away from the GT's...teh Elise ,thought, and I have seen a few, look like kit cars (why do lotus' all kinda have that look) I think the pure sports car in the elise and the performance is wild...glad they are finally in the US

 

I actually canceled my Lotus order - I was on the initial list and had put down a $2K deposit - after seeing and sitting in the first U.S. samples at the LA Auto Show. The car felt insubstantial, like a disposable go kart, as someone else here said, and the interior was plasticky. This is all by design, to keep weight down, and I guess if I wanted performance over anything I would've accepted it. The Toyota Celica engine does seem like a good idea when it comes to maintenance out of warranty.

I'm only 5'6" and pretty athletic (weights and tennis), so the contortionist entry/exit wasn't a deal killer. I did think it was a bit overwrought in terms of styling, with all the plastic vents and grilles and scoops, and looked a little toy-like. I hate to admit it, given my longtime antipathy toward GM, but the upcoming Pontiac Solstice is the looker in the sub-$50K 2-seater category (whether it has any guts or quality, I wouldn't venture a guess.) GQ just had a feature on it, in Italy.

What I do like about Ferraris, and even more mass-produced cars like Porsches, is that they do double duty, admirably, as social cars. I.e., someone with a skirt would actually get in one and enjoy it.

 

That's why they're so rare. They are in a constant state of restoration! Any Ferrari makes a Europa look reliable. But on the plus side, they are a baby Elise. The Twincams like mine put out respectable power and can pull 1 G with sticky tires. They draw crowds as much as anything out there. And they are rediculosly easy to fix, with mostly inexpensive parts. Mostly!

Once you get one restored and sorted, they are reliable enough to be daily drivers and have enough trunk room to do grocery shopping for a family of four. (I do every week). But good examples are never for sale so you need to do the work yourself. It would cost way too much to farm it out as even "perfect" cars sell for under $20k.

The Elise has all the thrills of a Europa, with much more power, much less room, and a warrenty.

Ken