Ferrari 308 GTS QV Project Rebuild and Euro Conversion | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 308 GTS QV Project Rebuild and Euro Conversion

Discussion in '308/328' started by spiderscott, Nov 23, 2018.

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  1. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Feb 24, 2004
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    Hi Dave,

    Yesterday I tried to remove the 4 pin pulley nut and it was seized solid.

    I can see from your pictures you ended up cutting yours off, can I ask what did you use to do that ?

    My concern is it sits inside the pulley/sprocket and there's not much access inside there to get any decent cutting tool and secondly the big concern is not to damage the pulley or even more so the threaded shaft.

    Cheers
    SC
     
  2. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Yeah, space is sort of tight in there. As I recall, it was nothing more sophisticated than a Dremel with a cut-off wheel. Score as deep of a groove as you are comfortable doing in the nut with the Dremel wheel, and then stick a wedge chisel edge into your slot and bang the other end of the chisel with a hammer so to fracture the metal.

    But before you do this, have you 100% determined that the pulley is loose and moves around in the bearing? If not, and if instead all seems solid, you might be trying to fix something that has yet to break!

    Let us all know here how you get on.

    Cheers - DM
     
  3. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Thanks Dave, I have my Dremel so will order up a new cutting disc and give it a shot.

    Yes there is something wrong in the area, there is some play in the pulley, so I'm removing to investigate. Hopefully it is just the bearing and not an engine out repair.
     
  4. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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  5. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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  6. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    Afternoon Spider,
    Looks like you're on your way, congrats and good lock... those chisels seem to be for wood carving, not for cutting through metal, just an observation.

    Best from Spain,
    John.
     
  7. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Yes, just for wood....those are going to be ruined. Look for a chisel for steel. Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Guido
     
  8. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Before you start cutting and hammering, try heating the ring nut with a torch for a short time (5-10 seconds) and then use an impact wrench on the nut.
     
  9. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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    Is the ring nut aluminum? Is it possible to have galvanic-corroded into place, or perhaps it was run on with an impact and galled...

    sjd
     
  10. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Cheers Guys for all the tips .....SUCCESS today with the dremel and Metal chisel I got the nut off finally.

    Heres todays episode. More advice now needed :D:D:D

     
  11. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    So they made two different size bearing and seal for the QV?
     
  12. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Yes there was a change over mid way Earlier type for crankcase 117598, later bigger type 121286 and the inner bearing is 32mm or 37mm, outer 40mm or 44mm. So I need new outer bearing, Circlips and Oil seal for my Engine. Strangely when I checked the parts book while at Maranello the US QV listed only the only type (later bigger versions) hence buying those. Just goes to show they can be wrong.
     
  13. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    I'm also trying to figure out if I need a Washer, part shows as 38 on the diagram but I didn't see that coming off the car ..... could have been chewed up in the mess that did come out, I will recheck.
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  14. vaccarella

    vaccarella Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2011
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    Maybe check the service bulletins - they often show the minutiae
     
  15. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Nice video! A couple of small details:

    When cutting the socket to make the DIY nut remover, you'll end up with 4 stronger 'prongs' if you start with a 12 point socket. Looks like you may have started with a 6 point socket in your video?

    The factory service manual for the Mondial line shows a cut-away drawing of the inner and outer bearings and the lower cam drive cover, showing all of the various bits and how they all go together. From looking at that drawing, it might not be too surprising that the shaft can now move in and out a couple of mm with the outer bearing removed, as you have already discovered in the video.

    Thanks - DM
     
  16. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    Morning Spider,
    I buy my parts at Superformance UK. Circlip and bearing are right behind the pulley, once removed there is another circlip and the seal. When you can actually see the bearing, measure the outside diameter before buying. This may save you money, shipping costs are not refundable.
    I hate to repeat this, but if the inner shaft has any play or wear, you will not notice this play from the outside, the timing gear, when geared with the crankshaft makes inner shaft play almost undetectable.
    Both of my inner shafts were worn, inner bearings were fine.

    Best from Spain,
    John.
     
  17. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Hi John

    Thanks for this, I will likely be placing an order with superformance this afternoon (I often get my parts from them).

    A question, do you remember if there was a washer between the outer bearing and inner circlip that holds the oilseal in place ?.

    It seems very strange as from what I can tell mine did not have this. Im researching at the moment and Eurospares, Maranello and Superformance do not have this part with 'Enquire' whereas they have every other bearing, clip seal etc. I've looked through the bulletins and cannot see anything saying it was removed. Also its still listed on the 328 parts which is a similar build.
     
  18. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    Afternoon Spider,
    No, there is no washer or spacer. Factory assembly mounted the inner circlip first, then the bearing from the outside, with it's circlip and lastly the seal was mounted from the inside. After all this was mounted on the cover, the shaft was mounted with the help of a press (so the bearing would not suffer damage), key, pulley and nut.
    When you have the cover off, assembly is quite easy, seal slides in place with little effort and stops at the circlip.

    I'll send you a picture.

    John.
     
  19. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    Thanks John, that's the diagram I need.

    However it shows item No 8. Spring Washer which is between the bearing and the the circlip (remaining ring) that sits holding the oil retainer in place
     
  20. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    So mine being the earlier version, on parts list is P/N 104915. As I said earlier none of the UK suppliers have this. I checked with my mate Mark at Maranello and the last one they stocked and sold was back in 2013, there is no part number that supersedes this (or the larger size later washer).

    I did a search and found one available on ebay in the US
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  21. spiderscott

    spiderscott Formula 3
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    And guess what, I then just rechecked all the bits that came out of my car yesterday and discovered what I thought at the time had been the face of either the disintegrated bearing or possibly the band around the oil retainer was intact the slim washer thats require 104915, plus as an added bonus its perfectly intact...... Happy Days


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  22. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    I think that belleville washer is to keep the outside bearing race clamped as the aluminium case expands and stop it moving. Glad you found it-- expensive metal at $32!
     
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  23. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    Morning Spider,
    Dropped the ball on that washer, the washer is placed between the inner circlip and the bearing, it's spring loaded (spring washer). The assembly sequence is as follows from inside out: inner circlip, spring washer(mounted as in the picture above, cone pointing towards the bearing), bearing and finally the last circlip. The seal is mounted from the inside. The last step is pressing on the shaft.
    I can't imagine trying to do it all from the outside, as the seal is tapered (cone shaped) and you will probably ruin the outer layer of rubber on the seal, as it would have to pass both circlip groves (the edges on the groves are sharp).
    Assembling all this from the outside with the shaft in place must be quite difficult, you may damage the seal and the bearing. At least on mine, the bearing fit tight on the housing and very tight on the shaft, tapping or hammering on the bearing to fit it in place is not an option, you will ruin the bearing.
    If the bearing is a 44mm OD, it's not cheap at all (around 100 Euros), It's a rare bearing, only found it at Superformance and Maranello.

    Hope this helps!

    John.
     
  24. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    379
    The washer in the picture you show is exactly what it should look like, looks intact. It keeps pressure on the outer race of the bearing. I suppose the meaning of this washer is to maintain the assembly play free.

    Good luck and best from Spain,

    John
     

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