Fatal car crash in the OC. Ferrari involved.

Why not just restrict a kid to the beater unless he's got a nervous parent sitting beside him watching him drive? Oh, and hide the keys BTW when you're not there. Make him pay his own insurance too while you're at it. Then some day when he's lucky enough to be able to buy his own you won't have to worry cuz he won't want to wreck it anyway as he earned it himself. Problem solved.

 

Actually, I'm not ahead of myself at all. All those things I mentioned are in the past as in happened already (except no fast cars). Those rights are already taken away from us. There will be more. When you read the New Year's L.A. Times tomorrow and they list some of the new laws for 2010 let me know if you any laws listed that are repealed! Knee-jerk is poor legislation and sensational cases give us knee-jerk laws. One sensational case of criminal dentist killing some patients changed the laws in cali for sleep dentistry and we all now pay extra for that. 911 gives us the TSA and still the shoe bomber and Underwear bomber get on planes just fine. Its about freedom and responsibility to exercise freedom. More of both are taken from us everyday and many don't even realize it.

 

Presuming he is rationale 100% of the time...

 

Why were they removed?

There are confusing and seemingly contradictory statements on this thread-- the car burned for "20 minutes" with the guys inside yet the driver "was not burned at all"

I would like to see for myself how it was that the fire didn't burn the driver.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

An 18 year old, unsupervised in a 430, and people are discussing this as if it were unexpected? I'm sorry, I guess I come from a different generation, but it seems to me that putting an 18 year old male in a car like that, in an urban environment is an absolute guarantee that the car will be wrecked, and perhaps injuries or more.

What everyone seems to be missing is that there is a dead young man. 24 years old, without an opportunity to enjoy life, make something of himself, have a family, etc. An absolute tragedy for him and his family.

The injured young many who was driving will be forced to pay for what he has done, society will expect that, and it is what every person who does something like that has to face when they have recovered from their injuries. No matter how good his grades, social skills, or other attributes, putting an 18 year old male into that car was a guarantee that sooner or later, the car was going to be wrecked, perhaps with injuries.

There may be some kids who could deal with that sort of temptation, but I haven't met them in my life and I've been around a long, long time.

Terrible shame, but a much bigger shame, tragedy for the family of the kid who is dead. Much bigger.

Art

 

+1

 

I found this info online in Mandell: Mandell, Douglas, and Bennett's Principles and Practice of Infectious Diseases, 7th ed.

TBSA means total body surface area

The American Burn Association (ABA) maintains a national burn repository that provides a 10-year rolling review of ongoing data collected from 73 hospitals from 33 states and the District of Columbia.[28] For the period of 1998 to 2007, almost 70% of patients were men. The mean age was 35 years, with 12% of patients younger than 5 years and 14% age 60 years or older. The total burn size was less than 10% TBSA in 69% of cases, with a mortality of 0.7%. Increasing TBSA was associated with increased mortality—40% to 49.9% TBSA had a 25% mortality, 70% to 79.9% TBSA had a 58% mortality, and more than 90% TBSA experienced a 81% mortality. The overall mortality rate was 5%, mostly occurring 2 and 3 weeks after injury; however, mortality was 8% for fire or flame injuries, the most common cause of burn. Inhalation injury increased the likelihood of death by 15 times. For survivors, the average length of hospitalization was slightly more than 1 day/TBSA (%) burned. Overall, predictors of mortality remain extremes of age, percentage of TBSA, presence of full-thickness burns, and inhalation injury, with some data supporting gender-dependent diffferences.[29-34]

I would think the driver falls into one of the highest TBSA categories, the claim that he was not burned at all notwithstanding.

 

It seems the guys had been speeding around for some hours, if not the whole day, and this was witnessed by some people on this forum. Did anyone call the cops? I think we tend to think of the cops as the guys who give out tickets and therefore "the enemy," but in this case calling them could have prevented this tragedy.

It seems to me that the enthusiast community sometimes, through faint condemnation, tacitly approves of wreckless behavior on the part of some of our members. If these guys had wanted to drive at 120 somewhere on an empty freeway in the middle of the night I would have no problem with it. But driving at 100 in an urban area is gross disregard for the safety of others, criminal behavior, really, and I find it hard to have any sympathy for criminals.

I get the impression that the passenger is viewed as a victim here, as opposed to the driver, who is responsible. If in fact the two had been speeding around all day then the passenger is just as guilty of criminal behavior as the driver. Being older, he should have known better, refused to be in the car, and called the father.

Yes, I know this is a tragedy for all concerned, but we should learn from it with the goal of saving lives in the future. Bringing the burned remains of the car to some events might have a sobering effect on all the young males present.

 

have you ever called the cops on yourself for going 66mph on the freeway?

 

Thank you for the perfect example of what I was referring to.

I would venture that to most reasonable people 66 in a 65 zone when everyone else is going 66 or faster is NOT the same as going 100 in an urban 45 (or whatever) zone at rush hour.

Urban streets are not our private race tracks.

 

I made a post one week before Christmas, in the "Ferrari Discussion" forum, hoping others would take it to heart and share it with some of our younger drivers.

Within a couple of hours, it was moved to the "Other Off Topic" forum, where I think it missed it's target.

I'd like to think that if the young guys involved in this accident had watched the link, maybe, just maybe we would be discussing how great it was getting a Ferrari for Christmas ... ???

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267914

G

 

Guru Anthony Robbins:

"You must know that in any moment a decision you make can change the course of your life forever: the very next person stand behind in line or sit next to on an airplane, the very next phone call you make or receive, the very next movie you see or book you read or page you turn could be the one single thing that causes the floodgates to open, and all of the things that you've been waiting for to fall into place."

"It is in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped."

 

It is highly unlikely that calling the cops would have prevented this tragedy because the cops would not have been interested. For all the claims to call 911 when seeing a drunk or reckless driver the fact is, the cops are reactionary, not proactive. I know this from experience. Over the last few years I've twice witnessed driving in the Los Angeles area that warranted calling the police and did so.The result was excuses from 911 and no cops or CHP responding. On the one occasion the drunk driver I and another motorist spent an hour following fell asleep at a traffic light where we were able to snatch the keys out of the ignition. This other motorist and I waited around for another hour and NO ONE RESPONDED.

The second occasion was on the 110 Freeway, where an accident was the result and one of the cars ran. 911 was useless again. A call to San Pedro police was cut short when I said 110 Freeway, "call CHP" was the response. A call to CHP was met with a, "thanks, we'll check it out". An hour later on my way north I saw the car that caught the brunt of the accident still sitting in the emergency lane, all windows shattered. I turned around and actually drove to the CHP barracks to make a report. The amount of effort I had to put in to make these jokes with badges respond was unreal.

Do you call the cops every time you see kids in a Honda Civic or Mitsubishi Evo racing around? No, you probably don't.

 

My impression was that these guys had been racing around the same stretch of road for some time. Kids around me have better sense than to do that.

From what you say, I stand corrected regarding calling the cops... you're right, if they wouldn't do anything anyway then it would be a waste of time.

 

The cops in Newport have a little more time on their hands. A couple of citizen calls and they'd love to bag the kids that looked like they were racing or whatever. It'd be a big kaching for their efforts, plus they'd really make an example out of it. If these guys were racing around for a while I'm wondering if they hadn't already done a few laps in this high speed section and thought they'd really go for it this one time?

I'd also be curious if the cops got the black box out of the car? That'd tell the story of the days events in terms of speeds, red lines etc. You'd also probably be able to tell if the car was being drifted judging by the sudden increase in RPM's? The box must be some how protected from fire so I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to retrieve data from it?

 

The majority of major accidents with exotics occur with new owners and borrowed cars. Everyone who jumps into an exotic for the first time wants to experience the thrill of the car and some have no idea when they are getting close to the performance limit. They assume that because the car didn't go out of control on the last mile, they can take it one step further and end up in this situation.

I'm surprised that exotic manufacturers haven't taken a page out of helicopter construction and switched to self-sealing gas bags by now. They probably are too expensive.

 

I guess I'll speak up for the younger crowd. Believe it or not, we can be just as mature and level-headed as the "older" guys (ask the mid-atl Fchat guys about me for example). You all must know you can't generalize so broadly... so why is this even an argument? You can tell if your kid has the discipline to drive X, Y, or Z-- so the question should be whether his father made the right decision in allowing his 18 year old to drive the car given the son's mentality, not whether ALL young people should be banned from driving high hp cars.

Most importantly, it's really a shame for the two involved.

-Joe

 

Experience and years suggest otherwise. Young men do not use good judgement and the statistics and actuaries bare that out. We can and do generalize so broadly because the evidence, and years of watching these accidents happen, support it.

That said, I tip my hat to you as the exception. Naturally, there are exceptions the other way as well. A 60 year old doctor in Brentwood had recently been harassing cyclists to the point of actually deliberately hitting two. THAT was exceptional. But in the experience of so many here, it's youth that makes those bad choices.

Simply put, "years" help you see what matters and what does not. Puttering behind that old lady in her Camry is intolerable to the young and ambitious. But it makes a lot of sense when you have million dollar mortgage and two college-bound babies at home.

 

Not to mention, most of us were "young men/teens" at one time and know the feeling of invincibility that comes with it. The first time I drove a friend's Ninja 1000, I pushed it to top speed on the freeway. I probably would have done the same with an exotic sports car.

 

Good post. Once that adrenalin starts kicking in it's easy to then really go apeshlt. Self control is what inevitably will keep you out of trouble most of the time. If you've pushed it too far, the experience or luck is what will make the difference. Knowing to stay away from that critical point is where you need to stay. It's easier said than done.

 

A few years ago there were many articles about the forming of the brain, and most specifically the center of the brain that weighs risk/reward. Researchers have stated that the area of the frontal lobe that provides this function is not fully developed until roughly 25 years of age.

"You'll shoot your eye out" think about that for a moment, it all makes sense, as much as he wanted it, and thought the adults were not giving him credit, in the end he almost did shoot his own eye out.

We all know about that 18 year old F40 owner, and he survived, so it is possible to have the power and not be stupid.

 

Amen to that! When we point fingers at people remember that three are pointing back at us! Tragic, RIP and condolensces to the family. What a horrible thing to happen to anyone, Ferrari or not. I lived in Corona Del Mar for many years until 2004, and have driven that road countless times. What a tragedy. Instead of judging the poor guy, try imaging what the parents are going through? Losing a child is no fun, trust me on that. Regardless of the circumstances.

nuff said.

 

We're all capable of making similar mistakes that led to this tragedy. Discussing what happened here, the why's and what's, is a healthy process and might lead to someone else thinking twice before doing something similar. These guy's along with vehicle owner, chose to endanger themselves and others publicly with disastrous results and have thus placed a burden on society that probably should be repaid in some fashion. Maybe preventing someone else from doing the same kind of thing is part of their indebtedness, whether it appears disrespectful or not?

 

I see this as healthy. If we don't learn from this and do our best within the car community, some idiot politician wanting to make a name for themselves will get a law passed banning exotics. Believe me, accidents like this are getting the attention of the wrong people. I'll say it again, the majority of these accidents are new owners and borrowed cars. We could drastically reduce serious accidents by focusing on those two areas alone.