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f40 stolen in italy in 1998

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by gaggio666, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    May 23, 2006
    49,041
    Southern California
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    Joe Sackey
    Due diligence.
     
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  2. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,550
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    This particular F40 was being offered by a Japanese broker in November 2015 with claimed 10,721kms. Japanese registration documents claimed the car had been registered in Japan from new.......with no proof, most cars in Japan lose the warranty book. As Marcel confirmed, there are hundreds of stolen exotics in Japan and as long as they are in that jurisdiction they are untouchable. Take great care doing any business in Japan, as JS recommends: utmost due diligence.
    A.T.
     
  3. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,550
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    Assembly #03528 by the way,
    A.T.
     
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  4. gaggio666

    gaggio666 Rookie

    Feb 19, 2017
    7
    rome
    Full Name:
    guido domenico blasi
    hi birel
    thanks for the information about the f40 being offered
    by a broker in 2015 can you please contact me privately
    guidomenblasi@libero.it
    thanks
     
  5. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 1, 2010
    6,430
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    Acacg and of2worlds like this.
  6. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    134
    There are cases like this happening today, I vaguely remember reading on a paper of a car scam/stolen cars that were being stolen in Portugal just to then appear legitimetly registred in Germany and the only way that people were able to retrive them legally without the burden of having to go to court was to continue to pay all their dues, find the whereabouts of the car, put their portuguese plates in open the car and drive off. This was about 1 or 2 years ago. I don't know the particulars of the scam/scheme but it appears that the thieves found a grey area or loophole and just took advantage of it.
     
  7. gaggio666

    gaggio666 Rookie

    Feb 19, 2017
    7
    rome
    Full Name:
    guido domenico blasi
    hi everybody
    just to update all of you about the stolen f40 search
    i managed to find out that the car was sold in 2016
    in japan and exported to copenhagen in denmark
    i attached a photo of the rear of the car where you can
    clearly see the japanese licence plate
    the photo came from a japanese broker that had the
    car for sale in 2015
    if anybody can help to locate the car would be highly
    appreciated
    if you do not want to published your answer on the blog
    please contact me at guidomenblasi@libero.it
    thanks a lot to anybody wishing to help
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie
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    Jan 8, 2010
    2,568
    Oslo
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    Erik
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,136
    #59 Marcel Massini, Dec 18, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
    Guido

    You have all my mails already, I never understood why you did not want to continue…………
    You were on the right track but then you suddenly walked away……….
    And you do know my email already.
    Up to you.
    Oh, btw, it's long gone from Denmark.
    And no, it's not in Kasachstan.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,026
    Dubai, UAE
    Really sad story. After living in Dubai for 15 years, I have been offered all sorts of stolen cars (on occasion acknowledged to be stolen by the seller!). Sadly, none get any maintenance, are offered cheap and are accompanied by a warning to not try taking them out of the UAE. A few TRs, an Enzo, and a few others.

    I am curious to know whether it would be possible to find the insurer who paid out (or the theft victim) with only a VIN number, buy the title from them, then buy the car. No idea what a 20+ year old title to a missing car might be sold by an insurance company for, or even if there is a EU database the public can access. Probably bad karma to get a car like that, better to reunite the theft victim with the car. When I bought my cars here, I just paid the dealer to look up the VIN in their records. A few I considered initially were in fact stolen.

    As a guy intending to leave some cars at my place in Italy, theft stories like these make me a bit nervous. Is it just as bad in Europe now?
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,136
    This F40 "went missing" more than twenty one years ago. It was NOT insured at the time. And NO proper and complete theft report was issued by the local police back then (I have a copy). Apparently the victim (now 81 years old) was not paid by anybody and one wonders why he waited 21 years to start "searching" on the internet through some friend (OP)?

    Marcel Massini
     
  12. saadxj220

    saadxj220 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2008
    33
    Dubai, U.A.E
    U still have the offer for the enzo?
     
  13. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
    1,491
    London
    Full Name:
    Mark
    wow....there is a lot to interpret from that carefully worded statement - leaves a lot to the imagination or certainly invites the imagination to start working!
    It interprets something more sinister or certainly something more intriguing is at work here!

    This thread has certainly caught my attention! It also provides fair warning to all prospective buyers, it will also make many owners start wondering why there is a dark blank area in their cars history - that "stored in a collection" period many years and many owners ago, perhaps abroad in a country that the investment bank you work for makes to contact compliance if dealing with.....

    Heavily smashed cars and totally burned out wreaks miraculous reappear in pristine condition, as new, the restorers and craftsmen involved are magicians!
    Or is it just easier to transfer the numbers to a stolen car and give it a quick refresh? It's really is a miracle, when one of our own members can't even find a replacement seal for his door mirror on an F50 - makes you think! If the boys down the back streets do it with with Ford Escorts, the Big Boys do it with F Cars.

    Marcel is the master of the history files, of this there is absolutely no doubt, he is the gatekeeper to many many interesting stories that exist just below the surface. His due diligence and knowledge certainly provides a high degree of insurance to any prospective new owner, no matter how well known the car may appear to be. It's the old adage, if you shout it loud enough and long enough people start to believe anything you say, and somehow that seems to become the record going forward

    Many of us will currently and innocently own stolen cars with patchy histories - and we don't even know it, many will know about it but keep it quiet in the hope that the ghost passes on to the next owner. There are even people out there that seek cars like this so they get into an icon at a discount, the element of corruption gives them the buzz - there are more of these people than you can imagine.
     
  14. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
    1,491
    London
    Full Name:
    Mark
    it could also be at the age of 81 years you are seeking closure to a few open threads in your life, why not, that's what human nature makes you do before you time is up. 20 years is a long time, a lot changes, what was irrelevant becomes relevant, also a lot is forgotten or disappears - interpretation can change with time.
    Life and the mind are a curious thing, I am nowhere near 81, just in my 50's, but i find myself closing old matters now, that did not seem relevant to me 10 years ago. Scores to be settled, retribution to be made - somehow it seems all the sweeter the older you get.

    As John Steinbeck once said, "Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
     
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  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,136
  16. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,917
    In the immortal words of Lt Columbo..'something is bothering me'
     
    tres55 likes this.
  17. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,026
    Dubai, UAE
    The Enzo was actually at a local dealer. I have lost touch with it, perhaps it is still there, it has been a few years. They also had a stolen red TR I considered buying until I had the VIN checked at the local Ferrari dealer.

    I was not inquiring about the specific F40 which was the subject matter of this thread; I was once offered a white Testarossa (for around $12,ooo). Yes, it was stolen, no, I did not buy it. I did wonder if someone could buy the title (it was a EU spec car) and then once they had that, then buy the car. No idea how to find the original owner however.
     
  18. INRange

    INRange F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2014
    3,777
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    JD
    I would bet that this is more of a binary problem. If the car was insured and the original owner was paid out for the vehicle....the insurance company would own it if it was recovered. If it wasn't insured, then the owner of the vehicle when it was stolen would own the car if it was recovered. Finding who "owns" the car is not the problem.....the next part of the conversation is.

    The closer you get to asking either party to buy the Title from them tips them off that the car is the UAE and that you have first hand knowledge of where it is. That's why the cars are poorly maintained because any factory dealership is not going to touch a stolen car unless there is a large "gratuity" involved.

    I'm surprised there isn't a larger parts business for breaking stolen exotics in the UAE.
     
  19. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,026
    Dubai, UAE
    How is finding out who owns it not the problem? Interpol may have a EU database with VIN numbers, but I have no idea how to access it. Yes, there is a market for totalled exotics with good title here - they somehow magically reappear as rebuilt, almost overnight...
     
  20. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
  21. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,026
    Dubai, UAE
    Thanks - they actually refer you to third party service providers like vindecoder and carfax, but their records can be spotty. One of my Countaches does not show up there (but fortunately does in the Lamborghini in house database!)
     
  22. Andrea DG

    Andrea DG Rookie

    May 1, 2020
    7
    ITALY
    Hello,

    i'm Andrea, from Italy.
    i'm using this thread, because it talks about another F40, stolen in Italy,
    with the hope of founding any information.

    In the early 90's my family had an F40 Rosso Corsa that was stolen near Milan on 30 / 05 / 1996, owned by Mr. P.G.

    We need, if it is possible, any information about this car.
    The VIN Number was 89009, and original italian registration ''MI-5T...
    Do you have some info about that car?

    Wish you best regards,

    AD
     

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