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F40 on Fire in Monaco

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ChipG, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    Wow....so I was deleting old files and came across this. Here is the Roland Linder F40. Of course that thread was closed long ago, but you still have to hand it to him for bringing this back to life. I even recall seeing the F40 egine on ebay, thinking that was a deal, having no clue who purchased it or why. I think it sold for something like 20k. I rode in this car for over 100 miles through the peach orchards and back roads of South Carolina. There was nothing about the feel and ride that said this has been burned and is no longer an F40.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    This is not true! The car was not reconstructed - a new Enzo was built and given the same VIN. Stop propagating misinformation!
     
  3. INRange

    INRange F1 Rookie
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    I'm pretty sure Marcel is using the correct legal wording. If it was not a deemed a "reconstruction" they could not have used the VIN from the old car. To meet the criteria for any factory reconstruction there usually is no percentage applied. Reusing a single bolt or the VIN plate itself would qualify it if the factory rebuilt it.

    The same thing does not apply to non-factory repair shops which is why at most televised car auctions the announcer covers topics of percentage of original sheet metal, original engine, transmission, etc when they present the car.
     
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  4. Four7EightBHP

    Four7EightBHP Formula Junior
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    Here's my guess. The fire had something to do with the slow down ECUs and improper fuel programming. The pop, pop, pop backfire even at low RPMs seen in the video may indicate an overly rich fuel condition. Combine that with slow down ECUs that dysfunction and allow fuel spray to continue, then disaster strikes.

    For 15 years with my car, Iv'e always asked during service what the experts in Maranello say. I wonder if they were asked about this one (?)
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Exactly.

    Not necessarily, that sound is usually simply a function of a cat-less F40 with the OEM restrictive muffler removed and substituted with a sports exhaust or even LM-style straight pipes.
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Okay; if putting the VIN plate on a brand new car that has a single nut or bolt or screw from the original car is considered "rebuilding" then I guess I have a misunderstanding of some things.

    But just so we're clear, Ferrari has used at least half a dozen VINs from completely destroyed cars and put them on new ones and said they were rebuilt. Cars that have literally burned to the ground.

    So if we want to play semantics here, and say that 135564 was "rebuilt" because Ferrari used one single piece from the original wreckage (you know the one - the car was split into two pieces on Pacific Coast Highway) and screwed it into a brand new car, that's fine. But then also acknowledge that Ferrari has "rebuilt" half a dozen other Enzos without any pieces from their wreckages, and gave them the same VINs.

    Marcel is using wording in accordance with Ferrari's official statements about the car because he wants to remain buddy buddy with his factory contacts. He's not here to provide true, factual histories on cars, he's here to puppet what the factory says. That's not the conduct of an historian; that conduct is in line with a lot of FerrariChat behavior - say what people wanna hear, keep racking up those brown nose points. Just so we're clear.
     
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  7. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Wrong, Joe. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm wide-eyed in disbelief that "historians" and "authors" of Ferrari models and history will blindly puppet this nonsense.
     
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  8. INRange

    INRange F1 Rookie
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    Dude.....I don't know what your beef is with Marcel. I have found him to be a stand up guy who provides material insight into a world few of us have access to. Whenever there is a question of authenticity.....I would rely on his knowledge and word more so than anyone else in the Ferrari universe. The fact that he has close relationships with Ferrari speaks volumes about his integrity, knowledge and passion for accuracy.

    In regards to picking a fight over "restored vehicles" unfortunately you picked the wrong fight. Both US and International law permit manufacturers to conduct complete restorations. Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Jaguar, Bugatti and Rolls Royce all have done so in the past and most likely will continue to do so in the future where a customer is willing to pay for it. If you don't like it.....seriously who cares?

    I personally have a lot of respect for both Marcel and Joe. Both have repeatedly demonstrated their professionalism and help to others rather than ranting about how they feel about restorations.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, I don't think you understand how Ferrari SpA operates.

    My one-word agreement of INRange's posit is my opinion, I think he's entirely correct.

    Exactly, and thank you.
     
  10. BOKE

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    Uh huh. Tell that to Jim Glickenhaus.:eek:
     
  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    well basically thats what he did.
     
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  12. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    How did that work out for him??? :rolleyes::D
     
  13. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    without the chassis tag...
     
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  14. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No, it merely speaks volumes of his ability to schmooze. There was a period of time when he was persona non grata at the factory. Brush up on your history of people before you brush up on who you think has individual Ferrari histories in their best interest.

    LOL, I don't think you know how Ferrari S.p.A operates.

    Joe, didn't you steal someone's picture for your last book? Or was it more than one picture? I can't remember.
     
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  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Whatever ability Marcel uses to gain close relationships with Ferrari, it speaks volumes about his passion by way of the lengths he'll go to to gain knowledge and accuracy, in his quest for knowledge, I can see how the factory might feel he got a little close for comfort and IMO that underscores his dedication as a historian, in the end his efforts benefit all Ferrari enthusiasts.

    Since I work closely with a number of people @ Ferrari North America and regularly with several Ferrari SpA employees on a regular basis, I'm comfortable with my understanding their practices & methods, after all I'm not complaining about how they do business. If on the other hand you have an issue with Ferrari SpA's definition of reconstruction, and feel you can prove they have done something unethical or illegal, you can always file a formal complaint or publish an article about it and see where it goes.

    All the images in my Miura http://joesackeyclassics.com/authored-books/the-lamborghini-miura-bible/ and GTO http://joesackeyclassics.com/authored-books/the-book-of-the-ferrari-288-gto/ books were either taken by my wife or I, supplied by certain clients, or copyrighted to us by prior consent from archives, no exceptions or issues.
     
  16. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i think he has a net benefit from doing so.
     
  17. PAUL500

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    Here in the UK the authorities use a points system to verify whether a rebuilt vehicle can retain the VIN/ID of the original car in order for it to be legally used on the road. A complete chassis can be replaced by an exact copy of the original as long as it is new and unmodified, however to get sufficient points to pass the criteria then things like engine/gearbox, suspension must be from the original car, they can however be refurbished.

    A car built entirely from brand new components would not officially be allowed to retain the VIN and ID of another example for registration purposes, however how this would be policed is a very grey area.

    I imagine other EU countries such as Italy would have similar legislation in place, just because Ferrari built the original car would not give them exemption from such rules.

    There is photographic evidence out there that the remains of cars returned to Ferrari, that then a year or so later phoenix back into life don't even reuse the original VIN plate! even that element is replicated.

    This is all though only for road use documentation, you can do whatever you like with track only or race cars so long as the parts are from a legitimate source.
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Carbon. I know and like both you and Marcel. You are arguing about a distinction with no real difference, and it isn't making you look good. We all know some of these cars are completely new as the Enzo in question and the term "Reconstruction" by definition can cover a lot of ground. It is also often a legal necessity.
    This is certainly no hill to die on. If you need to argue make it a topic where there really is an argument. This one isn't it.
     
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  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Carbon, further Marcels business is providing information on Ferrari automobiles. I really don't give a rats ass if he sucks up some to be in a position to do it.
     
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  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    You need the check your facts, especially before you make statements.
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I will add to this by just saying that there are many different ways to be a resource to the community, and they will be different with different people.
     
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  22. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That's my issue. His business is providing history on Ferrari automobiles. And, in the past, he's cobbled together information - at times acquired from me! - that he later uses in a manner I wouldn't. And, sure, I should just ***** at him in private, but he doesn't care. However the people who pay him lots of money to provide accurate history on a car before they buy it care, and I'm not about to blindly e-mail blast random strangers, so I'm just callin' it like I see it. And I don't want my already-tarnished reputation to have any Marcel residue on it. Remember that movie with Queen Latifah and Jimmy Fallon?

    "Open the door! I don't wanna get Daiwoo on my hands."
     
  23. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

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    #98 ChipG, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Cool, which one is that, or on what page?
     
  25. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

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    #100 ChipG, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
    no clue, I don't have the book, JK sold the car but still has the original manuals to it last I spoke to him a few years ago.

    EDIT: 58339

    EDIT 2: And no he won;t sell the book and manuals, I tried to buy them, he said he's taking them to his grave :)
     

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