F40 LM Restoration

An individual owner can do whatever they choose once the car has left the ownership of Ferrari, and Ferrari have no control over this, so a cease and desist if it was ever sent would be meaningless.

However should a company convert and then offer cars (regardless of whether the are Ferrari based or not) for sale using the Ferrari brand in their advertising then Ferrari can and do become involved. I have yet to hear it go all the way to a court judgment though in recent times.

This is why Singer go to great lengths to state they are not a manufacturer of cars, and instead convert cars already owned by another party. The reality of course is they source the donor, sell it to the new owner and then carry out the conversion.

In relation to the F40 all the time based restrictions that Ferrari could apply are long since spent, so all they could really enforce is the use of the Ferrari name being used for commercial gain, well unless the company was based in Italy!

Ferrari rely on the fact that a heavily worded letter from their legal men in black suits will scare most people into submission.

Tims F40 was a racer for most of its life, and was quite tired, it was the perfect donor for an LM style conversion, rather than starting with a road car, and a lot of the LM body mods had already been carried out prior to his ownership and he finished it off properly.

 

Yeah, I can't see why the manufacturer would get involved unless it gets serious like dressing up a 250GTE to look a GTO and then representing it as a GTO. .

Anyway, are you saying that for one of these conversions to work financially, you need to find a "cheap" donor car? I can see that being a problem with F40s while 911s are plenty. Kind of curious why there aren't more outlaw Ferrari's like the the Mototechnique Dino V8 or this F40, even considering the smaller number of cars out there.

 

I had a conversation recently with a well known company who does exactly that to GTEs but to SWB spec instead, all above board, they said Ferrari have no concerns with what they do, in fact that company even supplies components to Classiche!

Tims was probably the last example to make the conversion to LM viable these days given that standard is the new modified with these cars now (apart from one more owner I am aware of that is planning similar) so the next best thing is to take another Ferrari and use that as a donor instead, now I wonder who would be daft enough to do such a thing!

 

I suppose you are referring to GTO Engineering, and all of that seems above board as they always make it clear it is a recreation. I was thinking Terry Hoyle and Jolley when I said GTO recreation of a 250GTE. I think he did multiple cars like that back in the 90s. All good as long as it is sold not as an original. No one would get very far trying that on anyway.

If the numbers don't work with an F40, starting with a cheaper donor Ferrari sounds like a plan.

 

Is this thread on a better track now? I've been absent from following this for a little over a couple of years now as life took a few derailments.

Are there any good, positive updates?

Traveller is a wonderful and kind gentleman who is certainly deserving of great respect for so many reasons. One, is because he earned it and never demanded it.

What is the latest news on this wonderful journey?

 

Had the front off mine recently when someone spotted the coolant in and out connections are both at the bottom, same as this. Must admit this is a strange setup unless the out connection has an internal pipe or baffling to the top of the end tank. We're investigating but can anyone shed any light on the design?

 

Great artwork by https://www.facebook.com/yan.denes

Would be perfect in your garage @Traveller

 

A bit of a dig, but can anyone repost the podcast where this build was talked about?

 

Google 'Ferrarhub podcast'

Gr. Martin

 

Found it, thank you.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Tim, your car is being promoted #forsale! In the video is your car!
scam?

and reposted by others

Seriously.....

____________________________
Knight International

1991 Ferrari F40LM

Knight International are delighted to offer a 1991 Ferrari F40LM One of 17 built.

Genuine LM with extensive history, presented in perfect condition. Full restore and engine rebuild.

This car is OFF-Market, Vin number will not be released without deposit into an Escrow or Lawyer/Attorney Account.
For more details Email

___________________________
Guys do your own research!!

 

If this is actually serious, then the advertiser is expecting the readers to be clueless. The video from the ad came from this on youtube in 2014:



which shows an F40 that is evidently not an F40LM, but a lookalike. Whether or not it is the car from this thread is not clear to me.

It was replaced yesterday by another video ( https://www.knightinternational.co/f40lm) , this time showing a real LM ( probably #99401 at Bingo Sports in Japan - http://bingosportsworld.com/Inventory/#detail51 ) but the accompanying photos of the same advert in Jamesedition ( https://www.jamesedition.com/cars/ferrari/f40lm/ferrari-f40lm-for-sale-10419142 ) have been pulled straight out of the RM Sothebys Monterey 2015 auction brochure for a different car, #97904 (see https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo15/auction/lots/r174-1994-ferrari-f40-lm).

It can't be too difficult to get photos of their car if they actually have one.

No wonder you need to pay a deposit to find out the VIN, LOL!

 

Knight International claims to have a Valkyrie build slot, but Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer said whoever it is will lose their slot (and also that he doubts that company has a slot to sell). That was over a year ago. I think the ads are fake.

https://driving.ca/go/auto-news/news/aston-martin-wont-be-happy-if-you-try-and-flip-your-valkyrie

 

I respectfully disagree. It is not the quantity of posts, it is the quality of the posts. An individual can have thousands of posts that have the same relevancy / importance as one that only has one or two posts.

Take my case. "Lurker"on the site since day one of Fchat and finally decided to join in 2005. Do any of my posts has less validity than those who have posted before I did, or have posted more than I have?

 

Going back to page 99 and motec/injection talk, I only recently remembered that the stock ecu, can only run 4 injector outputs and that treats 2 injectors as 1.
Can someone explain me how and why no one does this with motec?
This 2 injector per bank is particularly important and not running this setup is kind of an step back on reliability and performance.
Another question is why the hell do tuners change from tps to map? This is an itb setup, the car was made and never really had a problem with tps and I never really saw an analysis of the cam setup that deemed them mild enough to run map instead of tps.

 

Excellent, beautifully written post. An example why FChat sits in a League of its own.

 

Even real/official F40 GT’s/Corsa’s are being updated
94362, raced in period as CSAI-GT and later as a GTE, was updated recently to a full spec EVO 2 (1996, incl Xtrac seq gearb)
74045 does have a Xtrac seq gearbox now; historically incorrect, but if you keep your parts you can most times undo the mods.
79890 and 79891 do not have their wide bodies anymore which they used at a few tracks.

As long as no one pretends their car as one of the 18-19 factory LM’s, all is fine! I saw many modified F40s in the early and mid 90s. Great cars!

 

The factory ECU treats the 2 injectors per cylinder as one, 2 for capacity, but wired as one.....quiet a dangerous way of doing things as if one injector blocks the cylinder will keep firing extremely lean. If you wanted to fire the injectors independently you would have to install a new wiring loom with 16 trigger wires instead of the factory 8 from the ECU's(4 each side/ECU).
A much better and safer way to run the car, especially with modern injectors(which do not suffer from bad spray patterns and or limited size like the originals) is to use 1 per bank that is big enough.
The original "2 injectors per cylinder" was never for reliability(in effect its the opposite) it was because there were not injectors available back in the day that had enough capacity....so they used 2 to make the power.

The factory ECU uses a TPS map with a MAP overlay(enrichment under boost), I suspect any aftermarket ecu/motec would do a similar thing as the design of the ITB's and plenum don't lend themselves easily to any other method with-out modifications, and at the end of the day a perfectly good tune can be achieve with TPSvsRPM load and boost enrichment. The whole reason for TPS map is the plenum and ITB design, not the cams.

For the time(1986/7) the Webber ecu's did a good job for how primitive they were, but if you have dealt with a car that has had a much more modern ECU installed, that has control over all 8 cylinders, with one set of inputs, the drive ability and power is worlds away, so much smoother and the ability to make power delivery linear or not, however the modern ECU upgrade does one thing that may not be consider "good" by all and that is take away a little of the character of the car.....which if you really want to go to the lengths of putting holes in the tune(like the limitations of the original ECU's) can be restored, but that's just a little ugly in terms of tuning !

I have set-up an F40 and had it dynoed with factory ECU's, and with a MoTeC M800 installed, the car made ~60hp and 50Ftlbs more with the MoTeC with less boost than the factory ECU's, and it ran silky smooth.

For racing its a no brainier to run something like an M800, the logging and warning/protections alone that can be configured are a must for engine safety.

 

^ Good post thanks. I beleive the top cosworth ecus can drive 16 injectors seperately. Mine runs beautifully on m880 though so we're looking at adding something like an m400 as a slave to drive all the injectors separately...

 

The Weber L8/P8 with pectel boards could run all 8 grey injectors on an RS500 cosworth plenum, they called them the super 8,

Most have now gone over to better management and run just 4 bigger injectors now for the reasons detailed above.

Stuart at Motorsport Developments in Blackpool knows the cosworth set up inside out.

 

Notice how the result of this thread has been exactly the same as the 0846 thread, the forum has lost yet another great contributor. For what? I cannot recall seeing any post from Traveller in ages.

 

Here's another Mototechnique conversion, coming up at Mecum.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0119-367933/1992-ferrari-f40/

A brother of the car here? Looks neat and the estimate is not much over a regular car.

Anyone know if Mototechnique is doing a run of these conversions like they are with the outlaw Dino run?

 

Its stated to be a far earlier conversion than Tims. Not much, if anything of the US spec car left!

 

Fully concur. However, I am happy to report that Traveller, with whom I enjoyed lunch a few weeks back, is engaging and illuminating as ever, and pursuing a multitude of interests including Ferrari away from the needless toxicity here.

A shame that the enjoyment brought to so many is curtailed by so few.

 

I don’t blame him for a second