F40 Dyno Results

You have SERIOUS problems with your F40.

Your Torque is way low!

You should be above 400 ft lbs at a minimum. My F40's first dyno run was over 400 ft lbs... that is with Tubi test pipes and a Tubi sport muffler. This is before I put on larger Turbo's and chipped it.

A bone stock F40 should be in the 368ft lb range, but with the mods you are running, you should be way over 400...

These numbers are the SAE numbers on a Dynojet. This was done here in Kansas City at MC Racing (913) 789-9888

I am getting the latest numbers from the shop, I will post them shortly.

Chris Parr

 

Steve,

The power figures still seem low to me.

My car is a stock euro F40, no cats, standard exhaust.

Its making about 510BHP at the flywheel which is 433BHP at the wheels using your 15% calculation.

If you are running LM turbos and a modified chip set surely you should be seeing figures closer to 460-470BHP at the wheels.

I'm having a Tubi fitted next week, I'll see if I can get the car back on the Dyno for another check.

Regards,

J.P

 

Well it's possible the dyno was not calibrated correctly and the conditions of the air (temp/humid.) when you did the test will affect the results as well.

 

All-
There are many different types of dyno's out there, and each one calibrates HP as a multiple of TQ but uses different ways to come up with the result.

I think the numbers are fine. Mustang type dynos are notorious for measuring lower numbers than a Dynojet dyno. With a Mustang dyno a load is generated, with a dyno jet it is not.

I have seen the same car on both a Dynojet and Mustang dyno and it is not uncommon for the Dynojet to register 10% higher numbers.

Dyno's are great machines to see how the car performs under load, free-wheel, and throughout the rpm band. They come in very handy when tuning cars, diagnosing problems, and adding upgrades because you can have baseline runs for a frame of reference. I am sure your car is fine. It would be neat to upgrade the turbos and then run it again to see the increase in power/torque which is what dyno's are typcially used for.

 

I respect your input, but how can you explain that horsepower numbers are inline but torque is way off?

I should note that actually the first time we dynoed the car it recorded torque at 369lbs, we knew we had a problem, we then discovered we had a bad ecu on the wastegate control, and I suspect that is the problem on this F40.

Once we corrected that issue, torque went over 400lbs.... just waiting for my email from MCI Racing to give last numbers...

 

Yes, you need to speak to Tate at Carobu, he will give you advice on why you are low...

My F40 had an aftermarket brass waste gate control valve on it, bypassing the ecu, and a non-stock chip, alot of cars had these had these as a performance package from the late 90's. They are AWFUL but I know I have seen them on at least 5 other F40's, god knows how many actually bought them.

But I suspect you are fine except for the turbo boost control. I think you should be up around 425ft lbs, so you are down over 50lbs....

I will let you know my numbers when I can... let me know if I can help in anyway...

Chris Parr

(I am still waiting for my last numbers from MC Racing..)

 

These threads are really very interesting.

It has got me thinking though and I will have to go off topic for a second.

Recently I was looking for various parts for my F40.

They included wheels, brake upgrades etc. the usual stuff.

I knew that most of these parts were probably available from Ferrari or Michelotto. I was not going to approach them unless it was a last resort, I thought they would be overpriced.

The long and short of it is that I did eventually approach Michelotto. I got a whole list of upgrades that they stock. Not only that but also superb advice from Cristiano Michelotto. He pointed my in the right direction and I've got my wheel, brake ducting and complete new set of bushes for my suspension. The prices were cheaper than anywhere else I've tried.

I am guessing that Michelotto have done more work on F40s than any other company in the world. I am waiting for a price from them at the moment to bring the power of my car up by 50BHP. And I bet they can supply some proven parts that will work very well at a reasonable price.

I'll keep you guys posted when I hear more.

Also. Next week my car might be going on the dyno, new Tubi muffler being installed. I am curious to see if there will be any gain in HP.

My thinking? You might be better off buying new turbos and the parts to make them work from Michelotto. It stands to reason that if you start playing with bits from here, there and everywhere you stand to encounter problems.

It might be the costly route buy you'll have peace of mind knowing that you've fitted tried and tested parts.

Regards,

J.P

 

There is like four people with F40's and one person who is getting one soon (360lvr), soooooo... im not going to talk any more or else i will sound stupid or something. LOL!

 

Today I managed to see that my boost is working very near its limit. Under full acceleration in 2nd gear I saw nearly 1.5 bar of boost, and every now and then a full 1.5 bar and a slight flickering from the boost warning light. My wastegate has not been touched either. I guess I'm just very lucky. The power delivery is superb, it will break loose in 2nd in the dry if you are not careful!

I'm having a GPS data logger fitted this week so I'll some extra data quite soon with regard to power.etc.

Regards,

J.P

 

Couple things...
I did not realize that you had upgraded turbos. I was looking at your rear wheel power numbers (which is really just created from a formula measuring torque).

Given the information you provided I would do the following:
1) Find a facility that has a Dynojet dyno. I think you can get a listing of facilities at dynojet.com
2) Make sure the car is getting air from a large fan before dynoing, and that the car is not running too hot which can greatly effect the torque measurement
3) Make sure you make the run when you are in 4th gear. Were you in 4th gear when you used the Mustang dyno? If not, then the numbers are meaningless
4) Ensure you have no vacuum leaks.

If you follow these, it would be interesting to see what results you get.
Let me know.
-W

 

The fact that the person said it didn't matter what gear it was in tells me they may not fully understand how it works. The dyno numbers people use to compare (in order for someone to somewhat intelligently say you are making more or less power than you should) from one car to the next are based upon a gear that is as close as possible to 1.0:1. In most 5 speed and 6 speed cars this is 4th gear. If I were to run in 1st gear or second gear (and I have tested this on a dynojet) my rwtq is way off which makes my power seem of as well. Since hp is just a mulitplier of torque you can see how tq numbers with gear ratios will change.

I am not saying that you weren't in 4th gear, but try to minimize the variables as much as possible before you go buying new ECUs, wastegates, or start investigating the turbos. For a mere $75-$100 you should find yourself a dynojet dyno, strap your car down, let it cool down for about 15 minutes with the rear cover open. Have them blast some air on the motor (with a fan that most shops should have) and do 3 runs. What you are looking for is consistency. As you know, none of them will yield the exact same numbers but if you are within a few % of each run and the motor didn't get too hot, then you should have a much better idea to determine if your car is making the power and torque that it should. Remember to make the pass in 4th gear!!
Good luck.
_W

 

I just took a look at the numbers again, and I am scratching my head as to why everyone thinks they are so low.

I don't know what turbos you were using, but I have seen an engine dyno run from Carobu for their upgraded turbos.
After adding the turbos the car made 510 hp and 422 torque at the crank. This correlates to an approximate rear wheel dyno number of app. 430hp and app. 360 tq on a dynojet. Typically, Mustang dynos result in lower numbers than a dynojet, and yet your measurements were 438hp and 379tq. Actually, it now looks like you are making great power, more than I would expect on a mustang dyno given your mods. I am not sure why everyone was so quick to say that you were way down on power. What company did you purchase the turbos from? What type of power increase were you looking for? Most of the time I have seen about a difference of 5%-10%+ between a Mustang dyno and dynojet dyno. If you add this to your numbers than they look even better!! I would still find a dynojet facility and give it a run in 4th gear with some fans to see a more comparable number.
Here is a list of dynojet facilities in the state of WA:

Austin Pro/Max
5602 S. Tocoma Way
Tacoma 98409
Tel. 800-877-9472
Website: http://www.pro-max.com

Auto Metrics
813 N. Front Street
Yakima, 98901
Tel. 509-457-3739

Carburetor Connection
13611 N.E. 126th Place
Kirkland 98034
Tel. 425-820-1871
Website: http://www.carbconn.com

Davis Diesel
7503 East Sprague Ave.
Spokane, 99212
Tel. 509-892-3836

Dyno Mite Diesel Performance
17631 147th S.E. Suite 10
Monroe, 98272
Tel. 360-794-7974

Intec Racing
7405 South 212th St. Suite 101
Kent, 98032
Tel. 253-872-0872

Little Monsters Hot Cars
5701 48th Drive NE Unit C-5
Marysville, 98270
Tel. 360-657-3659

Shelley Performance
N 4305 Barkers Rd.
Otis Orchards 99027
Tel. 509-891-0177

Tom's Perf. Machine
6707 NE 117th Ave. #C-101
Vancouver 98682
Tel. 360-256-1722

Turbo Technology
6211 South Adams
Tacoma 98409
Tel. 253-475-8319
Website: http://www.turbotechnologyinc.com

Hope this helps!

 

this is why I know you have a problem...

482hp @ 6,700rpm

433 lb torque @ 5,600rpm

these are on a Dyno jet, and I must say this is BEFORE we dialed in the cams...

Absolute barometric pressure 29.03

Vapor pressure 0.073 in. Hg.

Intake Air Temp 65.1 F

correction factor 1.00

You are off 62bhp and 66lbs of torque...

 

Again, you are comparing numbers from two totally different types of machines that measure hp/tq in a different way. Maybe he will contact one of the companies with a dynojet and get us numbers that can better compare the two.

cmparrF40- Those numbers are outstanding. Do you have a printout of the dyno run? Is it SAE, STD, etc..?
According to those numbers, that would mean your engine was producgin approximately 567hp and 509tq at the crank. That is almost 100hp over stock. Holy smokes! And these were with the stock turbos? Wow! I have seen dyno results from a Dynojet for a stock F40 and they were 410hp and 320 tq which seems significantly less than what you were getting. You definitely have a very strong motor!

 

I do have the sheets.

Those are SAE numbers, I have LM turbo's, Tubi test pipes, Tubi Comp exhaust, K&N's, Carobu Chips... she is VERY strong.

 

http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/ScottGomes2.8vsFerrariF40.jpg

John Carmack US stock F40 was dynoed 393 WHP on a dynojet, I think this is the difference for the engine with cats and without.

Great points

This is why the euro F40, no cats, is so fast.
The F40's engine with catalytic converter are down 400 WHP on a dynojet.
At the fact the Euro engines with no-cats were making about 510 bhp at flywheels, while the cat-spec it's about in 480/490 range.

 

Here we go again!

I promise I will measure an unmodified Euro no-cat F40 someday, since everyone else is afraid to. (-;

Here's a quote from Paul Frere in the September 1991 issue of Road & Track Magazine:
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Yes again
The only problem is that the most fast no-cats F40s were tested later than the R&T test, then published in the September 1991 issue.
Though, we saw that it was possible to improve that time of 20.9 for non-cats F40s... Auto magazine with not the quite quick jump tested gained 20.8, yet.
Some magazine improved the 0-100 mph data till 1 seconds what Auto magazine obtained, so what a kind of proofs were the words of Frere during that test? Just nothing. At that moment the poor Paul had not seen the fastest ones tested.

So, looking the C&D and R&T test, we just can say that the US cars are able from mid to low 21 on the standing km, while the Euro F40 with cats able to break it with 20.9. Then, the no-cats F40 should be able to break the 20.8.

 

Because:

As I'd say a lot of times , Auto Magazine achived 20.8 with not the quite quick jump; a 0-60 mph 4.2; 0-100 mph 8.5; 0-160 mph 19.7 seconds and a 60-130 mph 8.5 thanks the work of Bill's GPS data logger.

Nick Mason's no-cats F40 did 0-60 mph 3.8; 0-100 mph 7.4; 0-160 mph 19.0 for its best 2nd run with just the driver during the 1993 english magazine test.

Regarding the fastest 60-130 data comparing customer CGT data with full tank and two people (the same comparing method), we had talked yet, and they are approx the same. Now, do you think really the standing km 20.8 isn't beatable?

I was here talking about dynos. We talked 30 pages before the other points about tests. Here we go again! you are referring another time to the same Frere test. This thing is so funny. It seems you don't accept that.