F40 C0 adjustments, AFR's etc. | FerrariChat

F40 C0 adjustments, AFR's etc.

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by Oversteer40, Apr 24, 2017.

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  1. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    I have just installed a duel wideband datalogger in my F40, first startup to test logging i notice the AFR's are ~16.5 with engine dead cold !, car has never run well or been responsive cold and 16.5 is way lean especially cold, i adjusted the screws on the ecu to get ~14:1 and the engine immediately ran much much sweeter.

    Does anyone have a copy of the factory procedure to set C0 emissions ? how does the screw on ecu's work...does it change fuel delivery right throughout or just at closed throttle ??
    Also is someone has a copy of the TB balance procedure that would be real nice.

    Anyone had their F40 on dyno or logged with a wideband ? what sort of AFR's were you seeing ?

    Car is a Euro spec no cat 89.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Throttle pots have huge influence. Don't bother with other adjustments until all 8 throttles are balanced and the pots are correct.
     
  3. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    Ok, do you know the TB balance etc procedure ?
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Yep but you need the manual and an 8 cylinder manometer. It is too long to write and you need pictures as well.
     
  5. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    OK.... did you have a manual you wish to sell ?

    You can email me on OSEngineering at iinet dot net dot au and we can talk.

    Cheers
     
  6. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,338
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    The screws on the ECUs are the final adjustment to trim the fuel mixture at idle, and have less effect the further away the throttles are from idle.

    As Brian has said, the main input for the F40 injection system are the throttle position sensors. Assuming that cam timing, valve adjustment is correct. Spark plugs, and wires good, Fuel system is in good condition (tank bladders not coming apart, fuel pumps good, filters clean and injectors clean and flowing correctly, then you can perform the final adjustments of balancing all of the throttles, setting the throttle position sensors and lastly adjusting the trimmer pots on the ECU's.
    What caused the mixture to go lean? Have you investigated the condition of your fuel system?
     
  7. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    #7 Oversteer40, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
    Only recently purchased the car, was due for bladders so i had the Ferrari dealer ;

    Install new bladders.
    New Fuel pumps.
    New filters.
    New Five-o motorsport injectors(originals...3 were very bad.)
    New spark plugs and leads.

    Since getting car back from dealer it had several issues ;

    Cold start idle up would be erratic and jump around past 70 degrees water temp.
    Car would misfire at ~5500 rpm on part throttle only !, WOT revs out no misfire.
    Bad fuel smell.

    I diagnosed that the WTS were bad, tested fine at room temp but would go Meg Ohm range past 70 degree's.

    I ordered new WTS and ATS and installed.
    Replaced all fuel lines with PTFE hose.
    Installed Zeitronics Duel wideband datalogger(logging TPS, Boost and duel Lambda)

    Haven't driven it yet but i can tell already the fuel smell has gone(old Earls rubber braid hose is bad stuff...new or old, it sweats fuel vapors, got my doubts its suitable for FI as well !)

    Will be mounting car on dyno soon.....before it gets taken to race track for a couple of laps(providing everything checks out fine)
     
  8. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    My understanding of the Weber IAW system is that the adjuster pot on the ecu makes a universal change to the entire map, not just at idle?

    There is a free online copy of the F40 workshop manual out there, used to be readily available but the website hosting it was shut down.

    A good source of weber detail can be found on

    About RP LAB - Weber Marelli IAW ECU specialists
     
  9. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    #9 frefan, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ^this

    I had this done to mine a while back, it made all the difference and car runs really good now
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The pots have primary fuel authority. I have also found with our modern federally molested gasoline the factory settings are only a starting point.
     
  11. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    Ok i did go through the TB balance and made a manometer for a friends E30 M3 recently...making another 4cyl worth should be easy.

    I have been all over that RPLab site and well as Bigturbo.co.uk..... seem to be one of the only sources of info for the IAW system.

    Rifledriver - I'd really appreciate getting that manual off you, name your price.... do you have access to a scanner ? maybe just for the TB balance and Pot set procedure, i'm very keen to drive my car at 9/10ths and i won't do so until its all running perfectly/safe.
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I am getting it appraised. It is not an inexpensive book.

    If a collectors item does not appeal to you I am sure it is available on CD or something.
     
  13. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    Any idea's and where its available on CD or the like ?
     
  14. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    #14 Oversteer40, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    #15 PAUL500, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    I was sure I had a pdf copy on my laptop but now cannot find it sorry. I will keep hunting.

    Given that the F40 set up runs both banks independent of one another then would it not be a case of following the procedures for the 4 cylinder YB cosworth engine and replicate side to side? plenty of info out there for that engine, I have set up a few and its very straight forward.
     
  16. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    #16 Oversteer40, Apr 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Oversteer40

    Oversteer40 Rookie

    Mar 15, 2017
    43
    #17 Oversteer40, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok i spent the day sorting this tune out, which included testing fuel pressure regs(base pressure checked out same side to side at ~48psi and rose 1:1 with map) and connecting both TPS signals to datalogger(so i can easily balance them looking at read out on laptop).

    Balancing the TB's is quiet a lengthy process but very logical, i do have a copy of the Ferrari procedure, which in its self is fairly brief and requires some assumptions ! The manometer i made worked well, it is 8 channel but requires the ability to be configured in a combined 4 and 2 channel mode to make tuning steps much easier, the pic below is the final result...adjustments were very very fine on linkage screws but once you get to opening 8 individual air bypasses its very easy. Only tools required(after IC's have been removed) are the Manometer, a deep 8mm socket and a long small flat blade screw driver to reach linkage screws through gaps in top of manifold, and then air bleeds in side of TB's.
    One of the first steps states to plug in Ferrari tester and ensure all sensors, wiring etc are in good working order...I don't have access to this tester, nor do the local dealer...but i have verified most things to 99% satisfaction with manual testing methods. It is very important you have everything working correctly and not to expect this procedure to solve a prevalent fault which needs rectifying.
    If someone wants to attempt this themselves PM me and i will be happy to provide copy of procedure and tips on what to do.

    As far as the AFR's go on my car.....that's an interesting story, it seems the replacement modern EV11 injectors sold by Five-o motorsport do not flow quiet the same, at least as far as i can tell definitely not at low opening times. Setting the TPS's to .8V like the manual says results in quiet a lean condition that the ECU trim pots can not compensate for. My car requires ~1.2-1.3V base setting(was set to 1.05V already before i touched things) to get acceptable AFR's, i have not tuned/tested or logged car under full power yet(too many camera's and cops around!, best done on a dyno) but i am confident that a acceptable tune, all be it crude, which is what this early FI system is, can be achieved..... so much drive-ability, power and safety could be had with installing a MoTeC ! I am reluctant to do that to a classiche booked car however.

    Can't say the F40 is the easiest car to work on, but its simplicity is beautiful and i find it very enjoyable to work on.
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  18. gazza.motorsport

    Jul 26, 2017
    1
    Hi
    Just finished a restoration on a 1990 F40 and would like more info on what you did to get it tuned right, running rough just off idle and then clears, my email is [email protected]

    Regards
    Gary
     

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