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F355 Market

Discussion in '348/355' started by Robb, May 19, 2015.

  1. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    That silver Berlinetta seems to be a good buy for miles - stickies and decals not withstanding. Prices have ticked up. There will always be a high and a low, outliers and unicorns. Market is up, especially on low mileage, well documented and sorted cars.

    The divide from have and have not has taken a huge jump during the past year. The haves are spending. Buying what they want, paying up to have the best. The 25 year mark is here for 95’s and pushing the values up some, as well. People want manual cars as they are “rare” in general. The 355 represents one of the best examples of gated, 5 Valve, shrilling F1 like sound that is not duplicated in any other car - period. A truly unique experience. Reason why we have them and in my case, keep coming back to them. Others want that too. YouTube is driving most of the car culture and lots of people outside of YouTube are influenced by the online antics.

    My “store” (building next to me) neighbor is now a YouTuber, as well as a long term professional trader. March 2020 he took $30k and turned it into $25m by December! He is not the only one. He is in his early 40’s and spending some of that. He is your a-typical 355 buyer now. Something cool, “vintage”, with style and class. $5k, $10k, $30k no big deal for service and repairs. When you live your life as a meme. $5-10k is pretty cheap car repair when you look at cars as a whole. People spend $5k plus on 80’s-90’s Benz’s and BMW’s all the time. I have almost $25k in my 1988 BMW 535 Turbo project, granted it goes on BaT and could fetch $35-60k depending on the mood of the Internet! Cause I have what peeps want and it is 1 of 2 built to this level, in the world!

    So while we loves these cars, want affordability and yet desire appreciation, we are seeing it all happen at once, driven by a global market - no longer “micro-regional” in nature, but world wide through the force of Online Auctions. Dealers are putting crazy prices on cars and the lazy, overly cautions Millennial Plus buyers are paying up! (Meaning they don’t go kick tires in person, they surf the web, they see an individual selling online as a scammer and trust dealers more due to feedback and rating systems, how they were raised and now interact online.) They see the online market from one perspective and definitely not from the same as us in Fchat. 165k members listed on Fchat. How many active in 348/355? Dare I say, way more than 165k globally with 355 walking around money, trying to buy the 11k original cars, now down in the 8k range (paraphrasing #’s) after loss and attrition!?! And as a 50 year old, the Dino is not me, nor the 308/328. The F40 is missing a gear, the 288GTO is spectacular, but way to limited and valuable - see F40 too. 512BBi too 70’s and the Testarossa and TR also a gear shy and too “Grand Tour.” The 355 is the best of all listed above - opinion yes, but 45 years of knowledge :). Truly the best! It has it flaws, but minor when comparing rewards.

    Prices, can go where they want. I got mines’, not selling mines’ and enjoying no matter the condition, flaws or “character” traits. It is a Gated Ferrari and that ain’t ever, never happening again! F430’s will be off the chart some day with a Gate. 360 will bloom back up too, but neither is as sexy and Wall Art beautiful as a 355. Not even close!

    Cheers!


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  3. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    The high end of BAT for a "B" is $96k. For a GTS $161k. Most recent GTS, down $34k for that at $127k. I'm not negating anything but on the other hand, you are referring to anything that doesn't sell at the very top as a crappy car. The "B" currently on BAT has already been labeled as crap due to the gray wheel and red seat inserts, not to mention 30k miles. So if it sells low it's expected because it's crap. If it sell for a lot more then it must be evidence of over exuberance because it will mean someone paid a lot for a crappie car.
     
  4. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Nice post and frankly nails the over exuberance I refer to. Reminds me of the 80s. Probably won't end well. :(
     
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  5. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Karting
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    Here's what Hagerty says they do - https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/About-our-prices

    We can certainly agree on that at least!
     
  6. Kokose7en

    Kokose7en Karting
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    I think the next update for Hagarty is not until May. Updates every quarter.
     
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  8. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    #5081 carnutdallas, Feb 28, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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    + 20% 6-Speed (95-96 only 6spd!?)

    1) $150k
    2) $98,160
    3) $74,160
    4) $57,480

    Pretty close..... probably 30-45 days behind? #1 is BS. They need to take about 20% off their attitude. Truly #1 cars should be about 30-50% more than they value. Less than 1% of cars end up on Pebble Beach. Museum cars suck to enjoy. They just sit and collect dust. #4 is also misleading, all old cars have needs, that should be just above basket case - runs and drives, but needing tons of work, typically those will be 30-50% below that number.

    The middle is where we are hopeful as buyers and #1 is where all sellers want to live. After that it is just a hobby and a game to see where your personal “Delta” is. If you are a Billionaire, you only buy #1 Plus. You exhibit on Pebble Beach. That is a poor way to determine top market value. But it their site and business. This thread gives us a place to see where we are, opinions and all :)


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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    i already said you are right.
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  11. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Hagerty should adjust manual to 50% premium. 20% is inaccurate these days.
     
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  13. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    #5085 ShineKen, Feb 28, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
    Current BAT car is a good car, but can we agree there are a few modifications done to it that can be uncomfortable to a potential buyer and will have added costs to return to norm?


    Here’s what I think it needs:

    1. Stickies done. That’s anywhere from $1.5-4k depending on the quality you desire. For a car like this, bring it to the best (ex. StickyRX).

    2. Seats re-done or re-purchased. Only the center portion (red) are re-upholstered. The rest is still original. Judging by the receipts, this was done in 2016. I suspect the seats were fairly worn, judging by the condition of the bolsters. Owner probably did not want to deal with the challenge of finding Connolly leather so he went the inexpensive route and replaced just the center with a red color from who knows what leather brand to avoid black matching issues.

    Cost to find used black seats in fair condition - $4-5k

    3. Wheels. If buyer likes the color, then keep it. If he wants to go back to original silver, there are nearly brand new sets going for $5k on Ebay at the moment. You can also repaint silver, but the Speedline color code is a trade secret so you’ll never get an exact match.

    4. High quality paint correction and detail. The paint job on the car appears to be good all around. There are some minor nicks in the door jam area, but that’s about it. I see lots of swirl marks when light reflects. This car deserves the best paint correction process and will be well worth it. $1-2k.

    5. Engine out service 3 years from now with possible valve guide job. Needs new headers. A Set of Tubis would be the best choice. Engine bay can be detailed to perfection when that time comes. $10-15k.


    Owner (or previous owner) only drove the car 800 mi in the last 4 years after doing an engine out service. He didn’t have time for the car and I’m guessing he sold before the next belt service comes around. He’s probably a long time member. He dropped $4k on an X-OST exhaust system in 2011. That’s an old school favorite a decade ago. No one buys that anymore. My buddy has one on his 96. I’m curious to hear what it sounds like on a 95.
     
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  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Oh. One more.

    6. Subwoofer mod. Not enough detailed pics on what’s going on back there but I’m sure it will have some cost to return back to normal.
     
  15. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Would any of you here pay 165k for a 355 right now, today. I have the car in my hands. 1997 spider, black/tan 13k km, upgraded Tubi manifolds, only thing it needs is a windshield.. due to the previous owner popping his head on the rearview mirror cause it to crack..

    Let see where the money is at..

    Edit

    Yes it's the one I mentioned I just sold for 65k. New owner is very much willing to flip it for a tidy profit..
     
  16. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    Silver car has been discussed already and I won't do yellow.

    My requirements are carbon seats, white/dark red/deeper blues/other rarer colours.

    You always seem to pull the crappiest or least desirable cars on the market to support your argument lol

    As for future values no one has a crystal ball but no one believes their value trajectory will be linear...I think everyone agrees they're catching up to their contemporaries and the days of $100k GTB and even GTS manuals will soon be behind us IMO.

    And if you are of the opinion that this unlimited printing and increasing of the money supply will inflate asset values then surely you must understand the time to buy these limited supply "assets" is yesterday especially if values aren't your real concern and personal goal/fulfillment of your dreams is the objective.
     
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  17. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    I can't do yellow cars but if that was a Berlinetta I would've deal with the colour for that price...all day.
     
  18. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    Spiders are plentiful and IMO nowhere near comparable GTB/GTS values.
     
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  19. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    You bring up that $96k (before fees, actually $100k with fees) GTB again....the one with an accident history...as if that's the market. Lol
     
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  20. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    I can agree with you on that.

    HOWEVER...the one major difference right now is the unprecedented printing of money...the unprecedented increase of the money supply. There is a very strong case to be made that coming out of this the values of assets will remain high, not because they're suddenly worth more, but because our dollars are worth less.

    Cash is trash as they say.
     
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  21. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Very true.. so what its worth?
     
  22. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    5) has been done. In the records for headers and full head work, guides, etc. Headers were replaced OEM and probably due again?? Maybe?

    I truly think most of you over service a car that is not driven that much. NOT Starting that debate... just saying that I personally would not belt service,engine out this car. I have stated on here many times that I am a 7-10 year guy, depending on miles and driving habits. That is just me. If my car, under my care gets to 10 years without a belt, I would do it before selling. Right thing to do and I budget for it. In my 26 year in the auto collision business, human error is 90% of all failure - ALL.
    More they come out the more that goes wrong.

    Drive, drive, drive.... how the hell are there not more 50/60/70 - 150k mile 355’s !?!? Note, I don’t drive in rain, but that is why I have more than one car. I hate to wash under carriage and get motor wet - but proud of those who do.

    So anyway......


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  23. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    With that mileage if it's all sorted...in Canada it would be around $100k USD probably.
     
  24. Oz-ATL

    Oz-ATL Formula Junior
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    Sorted spiders are a bargain in the US right now.
     
  25. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Youre right. I just checked the invoices again. Headers and guides were done. This car has been maintained like a fighter jet lol.

    Headers were done in 2005 at 17-18k mi. He bought brand new OEMs. I question how good the replacements from Ferrari were back in 2005. Could just be the same junk.

    Engine out 3 years from now would put it right around 7 years.

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  26. ff2kracer

    ff2kracer Rookie

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    Where are they though? I see the same ~10 cars on all the sites; most are overpriced; most are questionable wrt being 'sorted'
     
  27. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula Junior
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    What I love about my Bargain GTB. All that work as been done!


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  28. Oz-ATL

    Oz-ATL Formula Junior
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    You may be right. They do seem to come up more often than GTB/S and go just as quickly for a decent amount.

    26 spiders on autotrader alone right now with only half gated. Then half of those are yellow.

    It may get to a point where “over-priced” is just where it is if you want one or you wait and hope.

    I currently own a B and an S and admittedly didn’t realize sorted spiders were so hard to find these days. That’s great to see!
     

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