F12 sudden brake lock, ACCIDENT | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F12 sudden brake lock, ACCIDENT

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by SL%%, Jun 21, 2020.

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  1. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    So, random guy nobody knows (OP) describes extraordinary event that happened to him in his car and people think he's nuts - "gotta be the car". Then someone people 'know' and respect, (Marcel Massini), describe a near identical event happened to him and now maybe the OP's story hold's water? :rolleyes: I believe him now! But, good luck getting service department to track down cause on that one. I'd say the car saw a ghost and reacted accordingly. :)
    .
     
    of2worlds and Marcel Massini like this.
  2. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    2,475
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    One is first hand experience

    The other is second hand experience. And the OP has been silent on whether he was in the car. And my guess is 2020 technology is far more advanced and intrusive than the F12.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    Did you bring this to the attention of your Mercedes service center? Data recorded? Error codes? Response?
    Thanks
     
  4. JackCongo

    JackCongo Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2006
    779
    Full Name:
    Jacques
    To me it sounds like different problems:

    No ADAS on the F12 so no big brother trying to rule your life. Mechanical problem, most probably, frightening though if confirmed.

    ADAS on most recent Mercedes is a completely different story and I am sure we will see more and more of such incidents in the future... Although our dear politicians will deny that there is any problem as it is absolutely obvious than computers are much more intelligent than humans (and by the way - and happily - much easier to control!)
     
    ppg70 and Gh21631 like this.
  5. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    I had no idea the electronics on an F12 applied brakes, I thought it was just limiting throttle when the tires break loose. Learned something new
     
    sapguy likes this.
  6. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #31 Marcel Massini, Jun 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
    Yes I did.
    They say they cannot find anything............their standard reply.
    Last year I had another virtually brand new AMG GLC63S and within one year had five issues, three times a blocked seat belt (try driving home without seat belt for 400 miles......). Driver seat belt was then replaced twice.
    The other issues: Twice a sudden emergency slow down while driving on Italian motorway between Milan and Modena, both times with about 170 kmh during overtaking within a milli second braking down to max 80 kmh on left lane..........in heavy traffic. Super scary and really dangerous. Two different dates but surprisingly almost at the same location near Lodi, exactly the same incident. I then had to drive home with 80 kmh max speed in emergency mode and it took me about seven hours instead of four (and I did miss an important meeting in Maranello)...........Both Mercedes and AMG help/assistance in Italy NOT working and not reachable at all. Basically inexistant. I had to call my Swiss dealer from Italy, and he suggested I drive home in emergency mode. Make sure you never drive a Benz in Italy and that you will have no issues at all. You will definitely be totally lost and without any help. And that was in Northern Italy, not in the South.
    Once home I purchased another brand new AMG GLC63S........(as you can see I can be pretty loyal).

    I have owned two F12s and drove more than 50'000 kms in total with these, also in massive rain etc., and using wet mode as well.
    But never ever had the slightest problem. Zero, nothing.

    Marcel Massini
     
    R J, of2worlds and BJK like this.
  7. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    1.) Apparently :eek:. Problems can be more palatable if offset by exceptional service. But problems and poor service? There are other German brands you know. ;)
    2.) So, maybe an SUV from Ferrari in the future? :)
     
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    BMW? Never ever again. Worst service ever. EVER.
    SUV? Cullinan?

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. marky1

    marky1 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2004
    1,119
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Marcel out of interest can you turn it off? I have a gle63s coming soon that has all this stuff on it as part of a package and I hate it.
     
  10. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
    4,781
    CT
    ooo-k then. Your thoughts on the Porsche Cayenne Turbo?
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    No, you can NOT turn it off. I hate it too.
    That was my first question when I took it over.
    The GLE63S is also a fantastic car, I do like it.
    I know that the overall service mentality in USA (fortunately) is better than in good old Europe where I live. Over here they (the Benz dealers) are all fat and tired and totally oversaturated and don't really need clients anymore and give a damn about their customers. And I have purchased many brand new MB's over the last 40 years.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    A Macan yes, but it should have a proper V8. Cayenne doesn't look good, in my opinion.
    The engine is the problem (for me), I want a V8 and certainly not a V6.

    Marcel Massini
     
  13. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    807
    i'll chime in that i bet hardly anyone here drives in WET mode so maybe that setting has some bugs in it

    i remember reading ferrari implemented a pre-brake load system to anticipate braking in the 458s too
     
    sapguy likes this.
  14. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Pre-brake is for performance to take up slack at the caliper. Better feel and modulation. My F12 has no HELE or auto braking or any of those intrusive gadgets. I don't think auto braking was available for that model. I also don't think it's ever been documented on this site before with an F12. Chances are operator error IMHO. Too much cowbell.
     
  15. marky1

    marky1 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2004
    1,119
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I’m in Europe too.
    I’m going to change my order then. Was finalising it today so lucky I read this. I think removing the driving assistance package will solve this. What I need to do though is try to add Pre-safe and Blind Spot assist individually as they are more passive and useful. The active stuff I would be happy to do without. Thanks for the info.
     
  16. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    15,983
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I think we're all just giving the benefit of the doubt to the OP. That said, according to the OP, the brakes engaged all on their own. Would this show up in the ECU log?
     
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  17. JL350

    JL350 Karting

    Jan 20, 2013
    204
    Sometimes when programming, a fail safe system is used, it maybe that a sensor had a bad signal and the traction control thought something was happening and applied braking to the rear wheels, and the rest is history. Only someone who knows the system intimately and has the tools will know where to look for the answers. Being able to report the events accurately may help.
     
  18. bam bam

    bam bam Rookie

    Mar 20, 2016
    6
    #43 bam bam, Jun 25, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2020
    Sudden braking happened several times to me in my 2019 Jeep Unlimited. Scary as hell.
    I noticed that both times I was approaching an overpass. The system was reading the shadow of the overpass on the ground as a stopped vehicle in front of me.
    Jeep denied all knowledge of the problem. A recent service with an “update” claims to fix the problem that they “don’t have”.
    We’ll see.
     
  19. Cobra Steve

    Cobra Steve Rookie

    May 13, 2010
    11
    Republic of Texas
    Full Name:
    Stephen 427
    It was only a matter of time. Not to be a "killjoy", but I'll keep my analog Ferrari, albeit slower, in exchange for having the peace of mind knowing potentially lethal actions such as this will not occur. Cars today have more computers (read "more-to-go-wrong) than NASA even after the lunar missions. All in the interest of making them idiot-proof and faster. No thanks. This idiot will take responsibility for his actions when driving.
     
  20. BabyFerrari

    BabyFerrari Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
    40
    PA
    Full Name:
    anonymous
    Very weird to see this happen, keep in mind this BOSCH system has been around for many years and is in millions of other vehicles... something to note... if you didn't witness this for yourself, it is most likely driver error.
     
    Jaguar36 likes this.
  21. redsled

    redsled Rookie

    Jan 6, 2013
    17
    PA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    This happened to me in an E36 M3 when I was racing with the BMW CCA. Turns out the rear ABS sensor tips had been collecting brake dust over the years, and finally got to the point where they were so clogged they just wouldn't function anymore. The rears completely locked up and juked the tail out to the right, while I was entering a 90 degree turn at the end of a straightaway at Jeff Circuit, Summit Point. Totaled the race car and the new IMSA-spec cage saved my life.

    NOW cleaning ABS sensors is a recommended part of routine maintenance for tracked cars with BMW CCA. Not saying it's the same cause, but it sounds eerily familiar.
     
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  22. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2012
    1,753
    Shreveport, LA
    Just to let you know that the problem is not solely a high dollar European problem, my '19 Suburban has "safety" features that will cause it to automatically brake if it "thinks" that I am too close to another vehicle, it will then brake hard AND turn. In my situation there is a turning lane to go home, I head down the turning lane and the car thinks that I am heading straight and it quickly hits the breaks and turns hard and quickly. After the second time that system has been turned off.
     
  23. Ktec

    Ktec Rookie

    Mar 25, 2020
    1
    California
    ABS problems are all too common given how critical the systems are. With all the modern driver interventions it will only get worse, until a radical change comes after the right people experience the seriousness of the glitches.
    MB and their infamous SBC problem is one example.

    I was driving an Infiniti QX56 (Nissan Patrol outside USA) going about 25mph in the dry, just lightly got on the brake pedal and full ABS engaged, pedal to the floor. Absolutely absurd, inexcusable error. Dealer did replace ABS unit and I believe all other braking related items. But disturbing to think how that can go so wrong, considering I am a spirited driver...
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  24. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Mercedes obviously has problems. Last summer I was picked up at NY Laguardia in a brand new S-class limousine (ADAS-equipped) and upon driving out of the airport at approximately 45 mph the car suddenly and w/o warning slammed on the brakes. My wife and I were restrained by the seat belts else we'd have been launched. The limo driver was just as shocked as us as he had absolutely no idea what had just happened. Then he told us it was a brand new car and this was in fact the second time this had happened to him during the two weeks since he had started driving this new car.

    ADAS is supposed to make vehicles SAFER???!!! Not. The safest thing on the road is an attentive driver, w/o electronic junk commandeering control of the vehicle from him.
     
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  25. johnny308

    johnny308 Karting

    Dec 3, 2011
    151
    Greenfield, MA. USA
    This ALL sounds like an electrical issue but.............

    A new Mustang had a defective lower ball joint and the brakes pulled a bit. Not a big issue.........until it rained. Then the car
    would jump a lane with only moderate brake pressure. The car was put on a lift and the tie rods knocked out so the spindles
    could be turned by hand. Yup the right side was really hard to move... by hand. Hook up the power steering....easy.....until one hits something!!
     

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