F12 prices | FerrariChat

F12 prices

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by bayareaferrari, Feb 25, 2017.

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  1. bayareaferrari

    bayareaferrari Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2004
    672
    California
    I was curious to get some viewpoints related to F 12 pricing. It seems in the last two weeks the number of F 12s on the market has doubled in the US.

    Where do all of you see the F 12s leveling out?

    What I have seen is that 2013's are trading down around 250K, and 2014 and 15's are in the high 200k, and 2016's are low 300ks some even coming down below 300k

    So,my basic question is the following. Where do you all see them leveling down with the new 812 rolling out?

    Are you also seeing the number of cars increasing on the market as others begin to sell ahead? And are you seeing the prices level out for most of these cars in that 200-250 K range?

    Just so we do not have any misunderstandings I am not bringing up any issue with the F 12 being one of the best Ferraris they have ever built. Just some basic market questions.
     
  2. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

    Oct 7, 2002
    2,837
    East Yorkshire
    Full Name:
    Justin Kenyon
    The LHD prices holding really well. I do not think they will drop below £185K as the 599 is there at the moment and 550/575 rising.
     
  3. Milanno

    Milanno Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2012
    949
    Compared to other Ferrari`s on European market, F12 is holding its price pretty well. F12 2013 with 10k miles is currently priced around $210k.

    P.S. I am not sure that F12 prices will drop in USA in short time, simply because market is controlled by dealers. That is main reason why we have lower prices for used cars here in Europe.
     
  4. bayareaferrari

    bayareaferrari Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2004
    672
    California
    I think that they are starting to decline quickly at this point. While many are on consignment sitting at dealers with none selling... they will need to start moving them by really dropping the price as the 812 hits the market. To see the number of F12s for sale over double in the US market is significant in just the last two weeks.

    The dealers have told me that many of their clients are bringing them in now to put them on consignment for sale as Barry have ordered a 812s and expect it to take a little bit of time.

    Regardless I don't think they are really going to drop tremendously but I do believe they are all going to play in that 225 to 275 range within the next year.
     
  5. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    368
    LALA LAND
    Patiently waiting on the sidelines to see how this plays out over the next 1-2 years, with the hope that f12 owners want to move on to the next best thing...F12 is fine by me.
     
  6. ml321

    ml321 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
    254
    London/Munich
    I think F12 prices have not really dropped in Germany for about 1.5 years (which is the time I bought my FF, so also checked lower end of F12 prices). Possibly the higher end price bracket is getting squeezed now
     
  7. bobhitch

    bobhitch Formula Junior

    Jun 28, 2014
    323
    UK
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I bought my '14 F12 9 months ago and dealers are asking pretty much exactly the same for them now ,here in the UK.
    Asking prices for well specced examples may have even crept up a little.
    I, of course, don't actually know what they sell for :0)
     
  8. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    368
    LALA LAND
    Just checked...77 come up on autotrader, is that double?
     
  9. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    In France prices of used F12 have not changed much for about 3 years - just when they "should" have begun to drop the prices began to go up significantly for all used Ferrari and as a result the F12 never really went to the intermediate status of used cars (before, prices of used Ferrari dropped for a while when they were considered the used car alternative to a new one, then stabilized for some time at a relatively low price before gaining the status of collectible and building value again; I do not know if / how long the current situation will last, to me it's a kind of anomaly specially considering that the recent cars are not as rare as the old ones).
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  10. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,386
    UK
    Full Name:
    Justin
    9 months already Bob. Time flies. I hope you're still enjoying it.

    Agree on prices here in U.K. If anything as spring approaches and the market activity increases prices for good spec cars may firm up a little.
     
  11. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    I followed for more than 6 months in the Autoscout 24 the F12's for sale in Europe and prices have not gone down. Some of the good cars I tracked and which haven't been sold since I started following the F12's remain for sale at exactly the same price.
     
  12. bobhitch

    bobhitch Formula Junior

    Jun 28, 2014
    323
    UK
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Love it Justin, as I'm sure you will love yours when it arrives.
    As you know, I was a big fan of my FF but don't regret the change at all.
     
  13. Zaius

    Zaius Formula Junior

    May 8, 2014
    863
    They dropped if you price in dollars.
     
  14. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    Only 1 data point but about to pay 215 for a high spec but high mileage 2014 next week if it PPIs clean.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  15. Alcav5

    Alcav5 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2012
    3,970
    Scarsdale, NY
    Full Name:
    Al
    I've only been looking for a few days now and I see the range between 240 & 270 for '14's & '15's w/ 5-8k miles.

    There is a particular high spec, low mileage car that has certain options I'm interested in but it's close to 280 (maybe it was a 400 sell), I really need it to be a little less to make sense.

    So right now I have to watch from side lines.

    Good luck, curious to know what you end up with.
     
  16. ScottS

    ScottS F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 2, 2004
    2,900
    Winter Park
    Full Name:
    Scott S
    Let us know when you can about it. I suspect that’s the value point .

    I’m casually looking but not wanting to be at the 300k mark for a F12 all in. Can pull the trigger at any point but want the right car or close with a good buy.

    A couple of observations about the US market

    Trade in on 812 has made private sellers more motivated. I would,love to hear from those. Icing on what kind of numbers the dealers are offering.

    I suspect from private conversations that most are consigning right now in anticipation of their 812 coming in. That method adds cost and does not put downward pressure on the market.

    A couple of motivated. Sellers with 812 incoming shortly or in now are out there. These vehicles are great buys at above wholesale plus tax benefit prices. In the US I suspect from these listings
    , the dealer offer is 200k or slightly above. Dealer markup is 25%.

    Scant auction data but some data points suggest 200k range for multiple owner higher mile cars.

    I sense that private sale is harder in this price range because of the transactional hassle. In other words ppi, paperwork, wire etc. dealer is easier and the option to finance is there for aspirational buyers - buyers without cash in hand = as buyers with cash may prefer lease or financing anyway. Different discussion but the broader access of aspirational buyer does support the exotic car market at many price points. At this price point, cash buyers want the car they want easily and 15-20k is less important. That leaves the market controlled entirely by the dealers.

    Last observation is the prices are all over the map. Ferrari dealers and non Ferrari dealers alike. It seems no one is motivated to sell once the price is set. In real estate when pricing does not reflect the market, properties sit until the owners drop prices or become flexible to offers. And that is what is happening in f12s. But the dealers own the market. Here’s why in a dealer world it makes little sense not to negotiate: cars sit for months with 1-2% per month floor plan costs. So 2-4K per month cost of not selling to the dealer. So 6 months 20k cost. Sell now save the cost.



    Someone tell me what I’m missing.
     
    rssf, donutcritic and of2worlds like this.
  17. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705

    You are not missing much. The only thing I see worth correcting is floor plan interest is super cheap. One month LIBOR plus 1.5%ish, so currently around 3% plus/minus annually. Dealers are an extremely good credit risk and the cars act as the collateral. Banks audit as frequently as monthly and floor plan is the about easiest commercial money they have. That said, the real cost of carrying used cars is the deprecation not the interest. Keep in mind, with consignment cars, dealers have neither of the aforementioned costs.
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  18. ScottS

    ScottS F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 2, 2004
    2,900
    Winter Park
    Full Name:
    Scott S
    Thanks ! Makes more sense with the lower floor plan estimate. So a single 300k F12 is about 725-775/month to the dealer. Long view is hold for the buyer, not the deal.

    Consignment just adds cost to the system and in an efficient market the transaction costs would be less. But gives dealers free inventory. And unless the seller is motivated such as a new car coming in, there is no movement. Predictably, most consign as an attempt before trade in?

    ScottS
     
  19. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
    1,933
    PA
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Dealers are aspirational, too!
     
    ScottS likes this.
  20. ScottS

    ScottS F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 2, 2004
    2,900
    Winter Park
    Full Name:
    Scott S
    My father was a new car dealer. Yes I know. Gawd I know.

    That’s why I’m always running the numbers.

    But I may have a lead on a car that fits the bill soon. From a dealer I know and trust.


    Scott
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  21. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    ok so poi is clean. having a compression test run just to be extra safe. I will post the build sheet here when i figure out how. MSRP was a little over 4 originally. we settled at 215. Car has 20,220mi. which is high, thus the price.
    I have bought and sold a handful of cars with this dealer and i am sure that i will be handing this one back to them for something else in 12 mos. They paid 205 for it plus transport and some fees and had to do a little work on it. It will be interesting to see what it is worth a year from now wi 25j miles.
     
  22. Alcav5

    Alcav5 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2012
    3,970
    Scarsdale, NY
    Full Name:
    Al
    I'm shocked the dealer is making less than $10k, I would have guessed at least $20k (10%). Sounds good for you.
    Will you buy power warranty.
     
  23. zim32

    zim32 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2007
    31
    Pacific Palisades
    I'm about to drop off my 15' F12 for consignment sale at Beverly Hills Ferrari. Grigio Titanio with 8700 miles on the clock and nicely optioned. Any interested parties can PM me
     
  24. DaveMc

    DaveMc Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2012
    379
    Palm Coast, Florida
  25. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    beautiful davemc!
     

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